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OtherGround Forums >> Any interest in an IDPA/IPSC thread?


7/12/10 11:03 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Are there any other OGers who shoot IDPA or IPSC? We should get a thread going on shooting tips, beginners guides, equipment, etc.

If anyone else shoots competitively, or is interested in getting started let's get this started.
7/12/10 2:02 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ok, I'll start.

Basic tips for your first time shooting in competition:

- Know how your gun works. All the time people step up to the line and act as if they've never seen their own pistol before. I'm sure a lot of that is just nerves, and that's ok. But still, if your gun has a safety, a decocker, a funky magazine release, etc it would be a good idea to become intimately familiar with them before coming out to a match.

- If you haven't already committed to a caliber, start with 9mm. It's just easier to shoot. You can get into .45 later when you want to try IDPA CDP division, or .40 when you want to shoot IPSC Limited division. At least in the beginning, start with a round that makes it easier to get accurate hits.

- For your first match, you will probably have a lot of well-meaning people trying to offer all kinds of advice. Ignore them. You should only focus on two things: safety (basically just muzzle awareness and trigger discipline) and following the range officer's commands to the letter. If you're a natural or a badass, try to win your second match. For the first, just be safe.

- Unless you're a police officer, wear your normal clothes. This is me being snobby, but none of the good shooters wear tactical gloves, tactical pants, tactical knee pads, tactical boots, etc. Save the stuff from nutnfancy's youtube videos for a tactical carbine class.
7/12/10 2:17 PM
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Willybone
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I went to two sessions at my local range, but I haven't been back in a while (work interferes with the schedule). I'd love to get back there soon.

I think it was your dry fire tips that I followed on the WeaponsGround and they helped a lot. I still run through the drills at home.
7/12/10 3:01 PM
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GaryG
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Edited: 07/12/10 3:01 PM
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good idea and ttt for later<br /><br />

P.S. would I be laughed off the range with a .380?<br /><br />

P.P.S. don't judge me you fags, my other pistol is a 454
7/12/10 3:03 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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GaryG - good idea and ttt for later



P.S. would I be laughed off the range with a .380?



P.P.S. don't judge me you fags, my other pistol is a 454


I think both IDPA and IPSC set the floor at 9mm. Anything smaller is too small.
7/12/10 3:33 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Edited: 07/28/10 3:06 PM
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Another tip:

If you're really sure you want to get into the sport, the following will serve you well:

Kydex OWB holster (no thumb break or retention mechanism) from Blade-Tech or Comptac.

Wilderness 1.75" instructor belt.

2 Blade-Tech or Comptac single magazine pouches.

That's all you should need for IDPA and add two more for IPSC Production division.

Anything you buy that's made of ballistic nylon, or made by Fobus or Uncle Mike's or whatever, will get thrown away eventually. It's a false economy.

Despite the above, you really don't need much for your first few matches. The above is gamer gear, and unless you're trying to win you don't need it. There is nothing wrong with coming out with your IWB carry holster and a couple of extra mags stuffed into your hip pocket. That's how pretty much everyone starts. You will be slow, sure, but who cares?
7/12/10 3:49 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ahren_nhb -  My local range has an unofficial competition every Tuesday night. I started out about 5 weeks ago. All I had was the "Gear" that came with my XDm, and 2 spare mags. The first course of fire is 36 rounds, so I need to make 2 mag changes, but I carry the fourth mag in my pocket in case I drop one.

I really need to get a decent belt. I just use a Kenneth Cole belt right now, lol. Do you have a link to the one that you posted above?

I also think that your first point (make sure your gun works) is very sound advice. My first 2 weeks I thought I kept getting FTF's, but it turned out that my thumb would hit the slide catch during rapid fire. I never had any problem when I had it at the range until I competed. I guess it was just nerves. I had the choice of changing my grip (which I did for the last 3 weeks), or getting a different slide catch. I got a slide catch. It just came in this weekend, so I get to see if it helps tomorrow. For the 3 weeks that I changed my grip, my accuracy really suffered. I hope that this new, slimmer slide stop helps.


IPSC guys use a different rig, but for IDPA this is perfect.

http://store.thewilderness.com/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=2007&osCsid=41ja0f2d9pahhkeohjs49s3dl0
7/12/10 3:51 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ahren_nhb -  BTW, is there a reason to go with the single mag pouch over a double?


Two single mag pouches allows you to space them out in an ergonomic way according to how your belt loops are situated. Also, double mag pouches make it difficult to get your normal grip on the 2nd mag.
7/12/10 3:54 PM
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alpo
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This is something I've been meaning to do for a long time.  I've had quite a bit of formal training and I shoot very well (at a normal range, anyway).

How much does it cost and how much time investment are we talking about (typically)? 
7/12/10 4:35 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ahren_nhb - 
Rhymenoceros - 
Ahren_nhb -  BTW, is there a reason to go with the single mag pouch over a double?


Two single mag pouches allows you to space them out in an ergonomic way according to how your belt loops are situated. Also, double mag pouches make it difficult to get your normal grip on the 2nd mag.

 Thanks!

Mind telling me what a "normal grip" should look like? I am a total noob when it comes to this stuff.

What "stiffness" should I get that belt in? Thanks for the link, BTW.

Any other tips for noobs would be much appreciated! I have tons of time to practice. The range I go to is indoor, so I can't set up multiple targets (just so you know my situation).

Thanks again.


I'll get to your other questions in a bit, but the standard 3 stitch belt is plenty stiff. The 5 stitch is really stiff. the inserted stiffeners are totally unnecessary.
7/12/10 4:44 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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alpo - This is something I've been meaning to do for a long time.  I've had quite a bit of formal training and I shoot very well (at a normal range, anyway).

How much does it cost and how much time investment are we talking about (typically)? 


Basic costs:

Gun: Glock 34 - $550
Extra Magazine - $25
Belt - $40
Competition holster - $60
Mag pouches - $60
Match fee - $20 or so (range fee plus club fee).

If you already own a pistol your costs to get involved are pretty low.
7/12/10 5:08 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Time investment:

A typical match is about a 3 hour endeavor depending on how efficiently the club is run, and whether or not you come early or stay late to help set up and take down targets.

Your practice schedule could be 15 minutes of dryfire per day and you will see rapid improvement. Add to that a couple hundred rounds every couple of weeks (which could be through a .22 conversion kit) and you will be way ahead of most people.

To see the most drastic improvement you could take a 2 or 3 day class from someone. Just make sure it's someone who can teach you to shoot fast and accurately. As a general rule, the more they teach tactics, the less they teach actual shooting. For example, Mas Ayoob will teach tactics all day, and a big reason for that is that is that he's not the fastest shooter in the world. You would want to take a class from someone who is a current and well-regarded competitor in order to see the best results.
7/12/10 6:28 PM
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killacox
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any tips to speed up my draw? i have fbi cant owb holster (at around 3:30). i draw and bring it up around pec level then while moving it forward bring back slide then push out. just keep practicing?

they allow one chambered at start?
7/12/10 6:40 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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killacox - any tips to speed up my draw? i have fbi cant owb holster (at around 3:30). i draw and bring it up around pec level then while moving it forward bring back slide then push out. just keep practicing?

they allow one chambered at start?


Yep, you start with one chambered.

I don't have the fastest presentation in the world (around 1.3 to 1.6 seconds for an aimed shot when I'm on the clock at the range), but I've found that the surest way to get faster is to eliminate unnecessary movement. Video tape yourself if you can. You'll see yourself doing all kinds of things that are inefficient, like moving your head, swaying, rotating at the hips, etc.
7/12/10 6:53 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Edited: 07/12/10 8:25 PM
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Mind telling me what a "normal grip" should look like? I am a total noob when it comes to this stuff.



A normal grip when going for a magazine is first to put the magazines in the pouch with the bullets pointing toward the front. Grab the magazine with the baseplate in your palm, and your index finger on the nose of the top round. Some "tactical" experts say you do this in order to make sure the magazine is loaded, or that the top round is seated. That may be true, but it's also so that you can simply point the magazine into the magazine well. As I'm reaching for the magazine, my left index finger is pointed down along the side of the pouch so that when the magazine comes out I'll already be properly indexed on it. With a double pouch I find it difficult to get my index finger where it needs to be EDIT: ON THE 2ND MAGAZINE before the it starts coming out, which causes more fumbles and lost time.

There is a lot more to the act of reloading, but that's the basics on how to grip a magazine as I understand it.
7/12/10 11:09 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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 Here's the grip you want when reaching for a magazine:

7/12/10 11:13 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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Edited: 07/12/10 11:13 PM
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 Here's a good description of reloading technique:


http://pistol-training.com/archives/135
7/12/10 11:15 PM
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killacox
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team s&w have her and golob now right?
7/12/10 11:21 PM
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Rhymenoceros
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killacox - team s&w have her and golob now right?


Yep. Glock wouldn't let her have any other sponsors on her jersey, including Atlanta Arms & Ammo which supplies Team Glock with their training and competition ammunition.
7/12/10 11:54 PM
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StrikeAnywhere
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Edited: 07/13/10 12:13 AM
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 I've been shooting IPSC for about a year now, I also do Steel Challenge which is run by IPSC now I believe.

In Steel Challenge you don't move...it's kinda more like a drag race in that you just draw and hit 5 metal targets as fast as you can (you do 5 of these "runs" per stage).    They're really fun and clubs that run IPSC/IDPA usually will also run Steel Challenge matches.    My club runs both matches once a month (Steel on the first sunday and IPSC on the 3rd sunday) so between the two I get some regularly scheduled fun shooting in each month since I'll also go out after work just for practicing.

Typical round count for me in a 6 stage IPSC match is 175 or so rounds.   In steel challenge it's around 225.

Like Rhymnoceras is saying it really doesn't cost much if you've already got the gun.   I started out just using the XD gear that came with my gun and putting two extra mags in my back pocket.    I quickly ditched the holster and got a Comp-tac.     I use a 1.5" 5 stitch Wilderness tactical but I recently got a leather Crossbreed belt (that I use for concealed carry when I don't want to look like a gun instructor) and I'll use that sometimes too.   I actually still use the V shaped mag holder, the shape still lets you get a decent grip on both mags....like he was saying double mag pouches usually suck  because they limit where you can put them due to belt loops (I ditched a Bianchi double pouch for this reason) but the XD one is designed so you can put it over a loop and not be hampered.    I got a couple single mag kydex ones as well.    Getting custom molded ear plugs is also nice so you don't have to worry about muffs moving around on your head as your running and gunning.   I've got really nice Sordin Supreme Pro X muffs but usually i'll just go with my custom molded ones that cost me $40 at a gunshow.

I usually wear carhardt cargo pants (cargo pockets come in handy) and I do keep a pair of Alta knee pads in my range bag because my gun club has gravel covered ranges and having to kneel quickly on gravel without pads just plain sucks.

Once you get into it you'll learn stuff about maximizing the scoring.  After a while I found that a fast C zone hit is better scorewise then a slow A zone hit.    If you're shooting Production (which most new people do) you'll be limited to 10 rounds in your mags....definitely do some mental dry runs before you're actually up so you'll know when you're going to reload on a stage.  For speeds sake you never want to run the gun to slide lock and you want to be moving while you reload so mentally plan out where you're going to reload accordingly.

If you're going to get into this stuff I'd highly recommend getting a reloading setup to keep the ammo costs cheap.     If you do reload one good thing about matches is that you can pick up a lot of good once fired brass from the guys that shoot factory ammo and don't reload.   I've got tons of brass because of this.
    
7/13/10 1:05 AM
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williepep
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Good thread

not to highjack but several pals are doing 3 gun shoots.

any interest in this?

perhaps I should just google it to read about it, but sounds kind of fun.

I went to a local range a week ago, and have since thought about joining.

The world has changed so much since I started shooting, no more shooting in old dumps, random woods etc.
7/13/10 1:06 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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Ahren_nhb - 

Any other tips for noobs would be much appreciated! I have tons of time to practice. The range I go to is indoor, so I can't set up multiple targets (just so you know my situation).


There's a lot you can do at a normal indoor range where you can't draw or move around. For starters, you can get some good data on your gun. What is your point of impact at 25 yards? 15?

Next, you can work on work on your trigger technique. This not only means making accurate hits, but also practicing how you prefer to work the trigger between shots. For example, even though you're shooting slowly, that doesn't mean you can't prep your trigger between shots as if you were shooting fast. So either let the trigger reset under recoil, or let the trigger out and take up the slack under recoil, but get used to working your trigger that way for every single shot, slow or fast.

You can work on your grip, stance, and posture. It's so easy to just be lazy and lean back and blast away, but instead focus on proper technique even though you're shooting slowly and not moving around.

You can practice press outs. Bring the gun back into your chest, and practice a smooth press out toward the target where you pick up your sights as soon as possible and guide the gun onto the target with your eyes. It's worth spending a lot of time on this technique, as it's a major time saver when the clock is ticking.

You can practice calling shots. Put the target out to 15 yards or so, load only three rounds, and don't look at the target between shots. Stare at the front sight only. Depending on the caliber, the type of target you're using, et al, if you focus on the front sight the target will be blurry enough between shots that you can't see the bullet holes. This is good. Practice seeing the front sight lift as the trigger is pulled. Make a mental picture of that and remember where each of the three rounds impacted the target. After three rounds, focus back on the target and see if you were right. Work toward the point that you don't feel the need to look at the target at all between shots because you already know where the round impacted. Develop this skill, and you will be way, way ahead of most of the people you will meet at the range. You will also find yourself shooting really fucking fast, but it will feel like you're going really slow.

Finally, dry fire. Fire a few rounds, then dry fire a few times. Watch what your front sight does when you pull the trigger. Shoot some more, dry fire some more. You won't burn through your ammo as fast, and your trigger pull will be leaps and bounds better for it. In fact, every time you make a bad shot, go back to dry firing on the range for a bit. You can even just fire a few into the backstop (not at a target) and watch your front sight as the gun goes off. If you're like the rest of us, you'll see your front sight dip and dive in weird ways that you never noticed when you were trying to hit the center of a target.

That's a good start, but I'll try to think of some more things one can try at a static indoor range. Have fun!

Oh yeah, at a public range the most important thing is to always be aware of what your neighbors are doing, and be ready to return fire.
7/13/10 1:09 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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williepep - Good thread

not to highjack but several pals are doing 3 gun shoots.

any interest in this?

perhaps I should just google it to read about it, but sounds kind of fun.

I went to a local range a week ago, and have since thought about joining.

The world has changed so much since I started shooting, no more shooting in old dumps, random woods etc.


I'd love to try some 3 gun, but I can't really figure out who runs these things, and what the rules are though. I think there is USPSA 3 gun, Outlaw Multigun, and now IDPA Defensive Multigun. 3 gun seems like the MMA of gun competitions, and some day I'd really like to be proficient at it. You should definitely try it and let us know how it goes.
7/13/10 1:20 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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StrikeAnywhere -  I've been shooting IPSC for about a year now, I also do Steel Challenge which is run by IPSC now I believe.

In Steel Challenge you don't move...it's kinda more like a drag race in that you just draw and hit 5 metal targets as fast as you can (you do 5 of these "runs" per stage).    They're really fun and clubs that run IPSC/IDPA usually will also run Steel Challenge matches.    My club runs both matches once a month (Steel on the first sunday and IPSC on the 3rd sunday) so between the two I get some regularly scheduled fun shooting in each month since I'll also go out after work just for practicing.

Typical round count for me in a 6 stage IPSC match is 175 or so rounds.   In steel challenge it's around 225.

Like Rhymnoceras is saying it really doesn't cost much if you've already got the gun.   I started out just using the XD gear that came with my gun and putting two extra mags in my back pocket.    I quickly ditched the holster and got a Comp-tac.     I use a 1.5" 5 stitch Wilderness tactical but I recently got a leather Crossbreed belt (that I use for concealed carry when I don't want to look like a gun instructor) and I'll use that sometimes too.   I actually still use the V shaped mag holder, the shape still lets you get a decent grip on both mags....like he was saying double mag pouches usually suck  because they limit where you can put them due to belt loops (I ditched a Bianchi double pouch for this reason) but the XD one is designed so you can put it over a loop and not be hampered.    I got a couple single mag kydex ones as well.    Getting custom molded ear plugs is also nice so you don't have to worry about muffs moving around on your head as your running and gunning.   I've got really nice Sordin Supreme Pro X muffs but usually i'll just go with my custom molded ones that cost me $40 at a gunshow.

I usually wear carhardt cargo pants (cargo pockets come in handy) and I do keep a pair of Alta knee pads in my range bag because my gun club has gravel covered ranges and having to kneel quickly on gravel without pads just plain sucks.

Once you get into it you'll learn stuff about maximizing the scoring.  After a while I found that a fast C zone hit is better scorewise then a slow A zone hit.    If you're shooting Production (which most new people do) you'll be limited to 10 rounds in your mags....definitely do some mental dry runs before you're actually up so you'll know when you're going to reload on a stage.  For speeds sake you never want to run the gun to slide lock and you want to be moving while you reload so mentally plan out where you're going to reload accordingly.

If you're going to get into this stuff I'd highly recommend getting a reloading setup to keep the ammo costs cheap.     If you do reload one good thing about matches is that you can pick up a lot of good once fired brass from the guys that shoot factory ammo and don't reload.   I've got tons of brass because of this.
    


Awesome! An IPSC competitor! Thanks for the tips. I'm shooting my first USPSA match toward the end of the month, so this helps a lot.
7/13/10 1:35 AM
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Rhymenoceros
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TheSergeK -  I have terrible trigger control, I just cant figure out how to stop it. Most of my shots endup left of where I am. If I really take my time and concentrate, I can make perfect hits, but even then they stray left sometimes, a sold 5-6 inches at 55 feet.

I know that means less finger on the trigger, but man, I just cant get my shit together.


It doesn't necessarily mean less finger on the trigger. Everyone's hands are built differently, with different leverage points and different points of contact on the gun. Just position your strong hand so you you are pulling the trigger straight back when the shot breaks, and be sure your weak hand is strong on the gun so your strong hand can relax a bit. At least that's the way I like to do it. Other, better shooters may disagree.

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