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Australasia UnderGround >> DOES JOHN WILL HAVE OZ BJJ IN IT'S BEST INTERESTS?


7/14/10 7:27 PM
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leftnut
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THATS IS THE QUESTION I AM ASKING HERE.
YOU ARE ALL AWARE THAT THE OZ TITLES ARE COMING UP IN SEPTEMBER IN HIS HOME TOWN GEELONG (AGAIN).
I WAS KEEN TO ENTER BUT AFTER SEEING THE ENTRY FEE ($77 ADULTS AND $67 FOR KIDS) AND CHOKING ON MY LUNCH, I DECIDED AGAINST IT.
IM KEEN TO KNOW HOW HE DECIDED THAT AMOUNT ,BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY.
NOW DONT GET ME WRONG. I UNDERSTAND JOHN HAS A BUSINESS TO RUN AND HE NEEDS TO RECOUP THE COSTS ETC.
BUT AFTER A QUICK JUMBLE OF THE MATHS IN MY HEAD IF HE WAS TO GET SAY 200 ADULTS AND SAY 150 KIDS, THAT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE $25,000 FOR ARGUMENT SAKE.
NOW TAKE OUT THE COST OF RUNNING THE EVENT. MMM LET ME SEE,

HIRE OF THE HALL $1000 ??
PUBLIC LIABILTY AND INSURANCE $500 ??
ADVERTISING- BUGGER ALL
TOTAL COSTS $1500 APPROX.
SO STRAIGHT OFF THE BAT HE HAS A PROFIT MARGIN OF AT LEAST $20,000 APPROX.

THEN THROW IN THE RIGAN MACHADO SEMINAR AT $80 ? A HEAD. TIMES THAT BY SAY 50-60 $4000-5000.
IM PRETTY SURE HE'S GET A NICE CUT OF THAT ASWELL.

AND JUST TO TOP IT OFF HE PROBABLY HAS HIS HAND IN THE FOOD AND DRINK TILL.

AGAIN I STRESS THAT THIS IS HOW JOHN MAKES A LIVING AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
THE THING THAT GETS ME IS THAT ITS ALWAYS IN GEELONG.
WHY NOT MOVE TO A DIFFERENT STATE YEARLY?
SURELY HE MUST UNDERSTAND A LOT OF PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY FOR FLIGHTS, ACCOMODATION AND THE EYE WATERING ENTRY FEE.
SURELY THIS GIVES THE PEOPLE IN GEELONG AND MELBOURNE A HUGE ADVANTAGE, PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND FINANCIALLY.
IF HE ISNT GOIN TO BUDGE ON THAT DECISION THEN THATS HIS CHOICE BUT AT LEAST MAKE INTERSTATE COMPETITORS ENTRY FREE.
I HAVENT SEEN ANYTHING WRITTEN ABOUT PRIZE MONEY THOUGH I COULD BE WRONG AS I HAVENT SEEN AN ACTUAL FLYER, ONLY INTERNET PAGES.
IF THATS THE CASE THEN ITS MORE MONEY IN JOHNS POCKET.
I MEAN, WHERES THE INCENTIVE TO GO TO GEELONG AND BOMB FIRST ROUND AND NOT EVEN GET A LOUSY T-SHIRT.
BACK TO THE COSTS OF RUNNING THE EVENT. EVERYBODY WHO WORKS AT THE TITLES IS A VOLUNTEER.
HOW BOUT JOHN SLING THE REFS AND TIME KEEPERS A FEW BUX FOR A TEDIOUS WEEKEND?
AND PLEASE, IF HE TELLS US THAT THE BLACK BELTS WILL ROLL FIRST BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT SPECTATORS CAME TO SEE I WILL VOMIT. SPECTATORS COME TO WATCH FRIENDS AND FAMILY. ALL COLOUR BELTS.
BACK TO JOHNS MONEY TWISTING WAYS.
WHY IS IT THAT THE BIGGEST NAME IN THE SPORT STILL CHARGES HIS BLACK BELT TEACHERS TO DO A SEMINAR? I THOUGHT THE 'FRANCHISE' MONEY WOULD BE ENOUGH?
I SAY ALL OF THIS AS I CONSTANTLY READ HOW HE WANTS MORE PEOPLE TO COMPETE AT THE TITLES. IM SURE HE DOES. IM HOPING THIS LITTLE BITCH WILL CLEAR A FEW THINGS UP.
AND YES I HAVE EMAILED THE SAME LETTER TO JOHN A FEW MONTHS TO NO REPLY. NO, I DONT KNOW WHY?
SO IF YOU SEE JOHN SMILING AT THE TITLES YOU WILL ALL KNOW WHY.
OBVIOUSLY FOR SELF PRESERVATION ISSUES I WILL REMAIN ANONYMOUS.
ONE MORE TIME.
DOES JOHN WILL ""REALLY"" HAVE OZ BJJ IN ITS BEST INTERESTS?
IM HAPPY TO COP THE CRITICISM FROM ALL COMERS AND MAYBE EVEN SOME FROM THE HATERS.

KEEP ROLLING
7/14/10 10:49 PM
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Goodo
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I love this comp and over the course of my 7 years in this sport I have never missed it.

I will pay my $77, go along and have a great day, catching up with the many friends I have made through this sport, this comp and Johns associatiation.

It comforts me greatly to know that you wont be there.

7/15/10 2:06 AM
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dojo stormer
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This gripe is always brought up whether it's carlinhos, pete de been, the nsw brazo trio, whomever is running a comp

You don't like it vote with your feet don't compete
7/15/10 2:24 AM
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PeterIrl
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Is this an open tournament or is it JW affiliate-only?
7/15/10 3:08 AM
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AvAMajestic
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Why are you yelling?
7/15/10 4:44 AM
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kustom
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It's a machado only comp as far as i know and as for in geelong it is actually in melbourne, which i know does not make any difference to where you are coming from. However it is no different to a peter debeen comp. i personally have no issue with either comps being run, i have travelled interstate several times to compete in a debeen comp and dont see it as a disadvantafe to the locals as long as i do it right. All i can say is atleast these guys are running competitions and actually giving us the chance to compete at a higher level than just your local inhouse tournament.
7/15/10 9:31 AM
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walbjj
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i think ur maths are a little off.
hiring of the "hall" as u put it will be much more than $1000.
having paramedics there for a full day as well as having the liability insurance to cover the event is more than $500. think about it, a paramedic conservatively would earn at least $25 an hour, at least 8 hours for the day, then there are at least 2 of them.
ur logical reasoning is horseshit.
im sure that the event staff are volunteers, and he has spectator fees, but the time and effort that goes into orgaising and running a comp doesnt just happen in a few hours, there are many hours of planning and admin that go into putting a large comp together.
if ur so wound up about it, i suggest u start up a new comp, charge $20 to enter and aim to make it the the "AUSTRALIAN BJJ CHAMPIONSHIPS", ill see that goes
7/16/10 10:58 AM
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DMMA
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Edited: 07/16/10 11:02 AM
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Ok Leftnut, I will set you straight right now. My name is Cam Rowe, I am a friend, long time student and black belt of John Will. That being said, I am also close enough to him to know his motives etc.

As stated above, the event is held at the Melbourne Sports and Aquatic Centre (MSAC). The hire of the "hall' is alot more than $1000. It includes hiring MSAC staff for the door, and cleaning after the event and quite possibly more that I'm not aware of. The insurance alone will be more than $1000. On top of that, this year will be run in accordance with IBJJF weight divisions. So that means 3 trophies for each and every division with an engraving on each. Not the same medals produced in bulk and used year after year for the next 10 years with no engravings like many other major comps.

John said there could be around 60 divisions. I think the cost for those trophies alone comes to around $5000. Keep in mind John has no idea if there will even be any competitors in some divisions. Also, each place getter receive prizes...each and every division. These are often supplied by generous sponsors, but even so, this stuff doesn't just show up on the door step. Melissa (his wife) has been and still is working hard putting it all together. Last year the black belt place getters won cash prizes. 1st $500, 2nd $300, 3rd $200. That's another grand.

Depending on MSAC, Melissa is often there setting up either late into the night, or up ridiculously early getting it all together.

As above, then there is medical staff that need to be on hand. I have no idea what that costs, but still another expense. Then there are the posters and the mail out.
There are around 70 listed clubs on the website, so with printing etc and mail out that's another $500 or so.

With regards to Rigan's seminars. Don't be a cheeky fuck and so disrespectful. John takes nothing for Rigan's seminars.
I should know, I usually host the seminar at my academy in Melbourne and handle the money then hand it to Rigan. He organises the seminar for Rigan because he likes to help Rigan out by having him do seminars out here. And I for one am happy to support Rigan.

With regards to the food, that's all handled by MSAC. MSAC put anyone who hires their facilities over a barrel. If anyone runs a stall within the comp, MSAC want a cut of the sales. How do I know this?? Dave Hart and myself had a stall at the Machado's a few years back where MSAC wanted a cut of our sales. On the topic of food, all the volunteers are feed through out the day as well as supplied with staff t-shirts. More expenses you've overlooked.

MSAC also takes the door money, I don't know how much but it's the greater part, if not all of it. If you turn up you will notice that it's MSAC staff that handle the entry to the event.

With interstate competitors I understand that this may get annoying but the logistics of organising a comp alone are difficult enough. Doing it remotely in another state makes it even harder. This requires more time, more organising, more chances of things going wrong. Also, John announces the date very early in the year being mindful of the expense involved. This gives anyone who wishes to compete plenty of time to save up.

The affiliation fees you think should cover his black belts and seminars is around $350 per year. This covers regular listings in blitz, maintaining the website etc. Unlike other affiliations that charge close to $100 per week, John's fee gets cheaper when more clubs affiliate allowing him to split the costs between more affiliates.

The black belts fight first because most of us on the day coach, compete and ref/timekeep. Those roles alone are tiring enough.

And don't forget GST...so that's another 10% that doesn't go to John.

So at minimum with the costs that I know of based on your $25000, expenses comes closer to $12000. Then include any other costs that I'm not aware of. So how's that $20,000 profit looking now?? Not so big hey!

I know why you didn't get a reply to your email. He literally gets 50 emails a day. Who the hell are you that he has to justify anything he does? He has more important things to spend his time on. What have you done for BJJ in Oz?

When you go to a restaurant, buy a car or buy anything else for that matter, do you ask them to justify their costs?? Why would this be any different? I don't mind that you've asks these questions, what I mind is the way that you've asked them and the giant assumptions you've made...particularly assuming that John is trying to gouge or take advantage of people...including Rigan.

And I'm with Goodo....I'll be happier knowing you won't be there. You don't share the spirit or appreciation for the occasion. It's one time a year to get together with friends in our affiliation and have a great day together, run in a great atmosphere.
7/16/10 6:32 PM
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4Fingers
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Hey Cam, wardy from de been here. Nice response. I am glad to see someone finally lay the cards on the table with respect to how much it costs to run a comp. Pete, for whatever reason, always seems to be on the receiving end of the same type of criticism. No one talks about the years when he ran comps at a significant loss, no one sees the behind the scenes work that goes on. I was for many years involved heavily in the organization/running of the afbjj comps(not lately due to kids etc), and grew very tired of reading posts on here especially from people who have no idea of the work or costs that go into running something like the pans.

People like the original poster are the same ones who bitch and scream at the refs for their decisions but don't know the rules themselves or refuse to fight, help or ref. Jiu jitsu as a community is better off without these people. My opinion of all those people who hate on pete for the same reasons is either don't show up or man up and talk to him in person about your concerns. Any little person can act tough and hang shit on the interweb. It simply creates bad feeling and divides the Bjj community.

W

7/17/10 5:50 AM
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dave nagel
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well said Cam.
7/17/10 8:16 AM
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dojo stormer
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Leftnut made a previous inflammatory thread about the adcc trials charging a high entry fee and mistakenly associated Paulo with it
Anyone know who this douchebag is?
7/18/10 4:16 AM
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geraldbb
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Cam is correct. Though I think the insurance figure is conservative, I am going back a few years now (I bet it is more now), but I know PL for a martial arts event at MSAC is more like $3K per day.

Leftnut - the Machado Nationals haven't been held in Geelong since 1998.

Best regards,

Gerald
7/22/10 12:38 PM
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myee8
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Wow seems like we have some people who have found enough time to detatch themselves from John B Will's balls to come and post here, amazing...
7/22/10 11:07 PM
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DMMA
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Wow, comedy gold...perhaps in another 6 posts you'll be up there with Seinfeld.
7/23/10 1:39 AM
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HurtingBombs
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myee8 - Wow seems like we have some people who post here, amazing...


Fixed.


7/23/10 4:29 AM
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myee8
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DMMA - Wow, comedy gold...perhaps in another 6 posts you'll be up there with Seinfeld.


In denial that you are a JBW nuthugger and that money is all he cares about?
7/23/10 8:44 AM
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DMMA
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lol, yeah ok. Must be easy to remain anonymous and make claims without any facts
to back it up. Back under your bridge troll, go on...off ya go.
7/23/10 9:11 AM
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myee8
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Tried reading the first post there mate? The guy's costings is a bit out, but the rest is true and as obvious as your blind loyalty. I won't be crawling back under any bridge, but i will let you alternate between your ball hugging and blindly defending him. Perhaps the sweaty smell of his nuts has affected your thinking?
7/23/10 6:49 PM
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Goodo
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Ok so can you or the original poster please let us know how someone can meet the criteria of having Australian BJJ in its best interests? And then do this and make a living out of it?

If you have an example of someone having done this can you please name them.

Your very much flying the moralistic flag here but neither of you two are really telling us what it is you want or expect so that this standard is met.
7/24/10 1:46 AM
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DMMA
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Edited: 07/24/10 10:10 AM
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If you say so...good luck with that. I seem to have the support from others within and outside the Will/Machado affiliation regarding what I put forward. So if by stating the truth when someone has made false claims makes me a ball hugger...oh well. I just thought it made me a fair and reasonable person. Must have got that wrong somewhere.

If I had heard BS claims against anyone and I was privy to the truth, I would standup for them...yourself included.

Anyhow, it's a shame that you have based your opinion of me but don't even know me, but that's the internet for you.
7/25/10 2:38 AM
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RobMcKenzie
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Gotta love these bitches with their big statements yet not wanting to give their real name.
Bloody white belts on the forum.

Guys probably trained about 3 months and thinks he knows everything.

Keyboard warrior.

ps. I'm in no way affiliated with John Will, but i have heard nothing but good things about him as both a coach and a person.
7/26/10 7:25 AM
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myee8
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My god, i didn't realise your loyalty was so blind! The expensive charges, the mcdojos, it seems like i cannot help you guys see the truth, a lost cause it is.
7/26/10 11:14 PM
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DMMA
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Edited: 07/27/10 8:25 AM
Member Since: 9/21/05
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So back it up.

What's your name?

What Mc dojo's?

What expensive charges? Define expensive. Does he charge more than what you value his services for? If so that's your opinion. And you're entitled to it.

Is a BMW expensive?? Depends on whether you perceive it as value for money. Some do, some don't.

Leftnut made claims, I've replied with facts. Oh and leftnut's costing were a bit out!!! Glad to see you were fair on that call. He was only out by around $11k. If I owed you $12k and paid you back $1500, would I only be a bit out???LOL. And he's gone strangely quiet. You've made claims...you haven't back it up with anything. If I'm blindly loyal (and that's your opinion with nothing to back it up), you're blindly attacking with claims and once again, nothing to back it.

So far all you've done is shown that you're a keyboard warrior who is too much of coward to put your name to what you claim.
7/27/10 1:03 AM
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leftnut
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so why is it that elvis and perosh seem to be able to have a comp with as many people in it and manage to only charge $50 ??
please explain.
im sure theyd have to do as much logistics as JBW.
a comp is a comp and you shouldnt have to pay more for one or the other when at the end of the day you may still win a 2 dollar trophy.
7/27/10 2:49 AM
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walbjj
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^^^hmmm, he does have a point with regards to eventsbjj.it only costs $50 to enter. however, its a smaller venue, and it does have less competitors.

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