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Weapons UnderGround >> Stab program.


7/23/10 8:02 PM
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artymc
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Has anyone come across this knife program.
7/25/10 2:26 AM
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Skpotamus
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Do you mean Karl Tanswells STAB program? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-306340144244288583#docid=7410961341925544918

I've not really worked with it, but it seems like a good program and I've heard/read good things about it. It looks a bit like a combination of the Red Zone Defense material and the Dog Bros material (both are great for knife defense work btw).

Personally, my favorite (read that: works the best for me) knife defense work has been a combination of the dog brothers Die Less Often material with Michael Janichs Counter Blade Concepts thrown in.
9/20/10 6:12 AM
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JJK
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Thanks for the link. I've heard good things about it and look forward to checking out the link!
11/11/10 3:39 AM
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ironmongoose
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Tanswell's STAB is pure awesome. Best knife defense systems out there are STAB, RedZone, and Die Less Often. STAB is my preferred approach.
11/11/10 4:25 AM
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Skpotamus
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Dunno why I didn't post this before. The best knife defense program out there is the one by Sit Peter Boatman if you can find someone certified in it. He called it his Spontaneous Edge Weapons Defense system, in the UK officer injuries with edged weapon encounters went from a whopping 87% to 16% after his program was put in place. Worked well enough that he got knighted for it.

If you can find an instructor that's certified in it, I'd recommend it, as it's one of a handful of knife defense programs that have seen a LOT of real world use and work.
11/11/10 3:51 PM
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ironmongoose
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Interesting reading re: the Boatman program.

http://www.wilsonkarate.com/forum/viewthread.php?action=printable&fid=1&tid=469

Darren Laur runs his stuff out of Victoria, BC. I used to own one of his books. Wanted to do his PWA program but couldn't quite get it organized with him.

He's best known for his series of free short self-defence monographs, downloadable from his site.
11/13/10 1:55 PM
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Skpotamus
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Interesting that Boatman stole the material. Sucks for Lauer, I mean, the material worked well enough that Boatman got knighted for it!

Anyways, the material does work, and is pretty much the only knife program out there that's had the kind of success it's had.
11/14/10 11:31 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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STAB seminar - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4390904988613454229
11/15/10 10:46 AM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Edited: 11/15/10 10:47 AM
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edit: wrong thread.
11/15/10 1:21 PM
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ironmongoose
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Skpotamus - Interesting that Boatman stole the material. Sucks for Lauer, I mean, the material worked well enough that Boatman got knighted for it!

Anyways, the material does work, and is pretty much the only knife program out there that's had the kind of success it's had.

Yup, if true, it really sucks for Laur.

Would like to learn it myself, never had the opportunity yet, but Victoria isn't that far for me. The stuff I've read on it makes good sense, and it seems there's a lot of overlap with the other programs I think are good.
11/30/10 5:15 AM
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Robin Ashe
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Tried creating a thread about this, but it got swallowed. Anyone know what happened to Tanswell's website?
11/30/10 12:11 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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^Didn't he move to Oregon? Might be why his UK site is down.
11/30/10 12:43 PM
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ironmongoose
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I'm sure Tanswell's still in the UK. He did a tour of Canada and the US last year, but I don't think he moved.
11/30/10 12:55 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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"Karl can now be found running the Portland Oregon SBGi MMA Competition Team practices. Making the Portland Gym the place to be if what you are looking for is the cutting edge of world class scientific sports Coaching!"



http://www.sbgi-pdx.com/staff.htm


11/30/10 2:39 PM
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Robin Ashe
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That explains my high degree of fail in tracking him down.

Thanks! Forums do what Google can't.
5/28/11 11:36 PM
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FJJ828
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 As a long time instructor and certified in Boatman's system, I have heard Laur's complaints. I don't know the history but but will say without hesitation that the Pat Wrap Attack system is very limited and spends the vast majority of the training time emphasizing the pick up. 

I have trained it and instructed it. It is an ok system to get people started thinking about the blade and the need to control the armed limb. Do yourself a favor though and check out Jerry Wetzel's RED ZONE and/or Karl Tanswell's STAB. They literally address what you need to know to make the PWA system work.   
5/28/11 11:37 PM
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FJJ828
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 As a long time instructor and certified in Boatman's system, I have heard Laur's complaints. I don't know the history but but will say without hesitation that the Pat Wrap Attack system is very limited and spends the vast majority of the training time emphasizing the pick up. 

I have trained it and instructed it. It is an ok system to get people started thinking about the blade and the need to control the armed limb. Do yourself a favor though and check out Jerry Wetzel's RED ZONE and/or Karl Tanswell's STAB. They literally address what you need to know to make the PWA system work.   
6/10/11 10:54 PM
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FJJ828
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Not sure. A google search for Boatman just now revealed that he killed himself in October 2010. Apparently he was under investigation for his company's supplying TASER devices to officers who had used them on a murder suspect who subsequently died during arrest.

I met him on several occasions as we were both Master Instructors for TASER and attended conferences together. I knew of the Laur issue but Laur comes across as kind of arrogant so I figured Boatie was just being flamed by a rival. In retrospect, the Laur complaints could very well have been true.

That being said, I still feel that the program is simply "ok". It is not the Holy Grail some people make it out to be and I no longer teach it. The Edged Weapon material we teach in the ISR Matrix is heavily influenced by RED ZONE and STAB because those two programs answer the questions that PAT WRAP ATTACK ignores.

9/5/11 11:02 PM
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FJJ828
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 The ISR Matrix PM program is more unarmed combatives than the AF and LE and is typically sought out by security professionals. It is generally open to non security people just for the combative and SD applications.

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