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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> ronda rousey mma debut


1/23/11 10:52 PM
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Empire
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is it unheard of that someone could excel in judo from scratch and be a prodigy?

like a judo's version of bj penn? was there ever such a person?
1/23/11 11:08 PM
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^His name is Jon Bluming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPSv05AeXVc

Started judo ~20-21, made shodan in 1yr, and kicked the shit out of just about everyone he ever faced on the mats...to the point that Geesink wanted nothing to do with him(competition) and him being denied entry into tournaments that would have led him to the olympics.
1/24/11 6:35 PM
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judoblackbelt
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To: Empire: yes it is unheard of: I can only think of 1 judoka in modern times-Tuvshinbayar Naidan of Mongolia won the 2008 Judo Olympics in 100K. He began his judo competition career in 2006 on a world stage. Started placing in 2007 with no 1st placce finsishes. And won gold in 2008 with 5 consecutive wins. First time he every won a world class event. I think in judo it is possible at the heavier weights. There are not as many world class players. That is why you see a Teddy Riner dominate in the 100+k. If there is a BJJ er who could compete on world class judo level I think Roger Gracie could have because he is either 100k/100+k. He has the skills (in my opinion).

Garry- I will see you at the Senior Nationals.
1/24/11 6:46 PM
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Naidan came from bokh(sp?) though, didn't he? Not exactly a bad base to transition from, imo. I wrestled a Mongolian kid(25ish) who I had 80lbs+ on and he threw me on my head(easily) more times than I care to admit. Found out later he'd wrestled since he was little and had competed in the Naadam festival several times. ;)
1/24/11 8:50 PM
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judoblackbelt
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MGT- I think I read (during the 2008 Olympics) about Naidan had been doing judo for 8 years with his background in Mongolian wrestling. I watched all his matches and the opponents couldn't throw him with his bent over style. And he could attack their legs. The new rules have made his style less formidable. But this is still a feat on the world scale. I don't believe this would happen today given the new rules. I don't believe this would happen at the 60K/66k/73k/81k/90K brkts. There are too many opponents you have to fight to win first place. THe most dominant judo player today is Teddy Riner(100+k) of France. He smashes(ippons) most his opponents and has more first place finishes then anyone.
1/25/11 1:21 PM
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karpo
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Bluming was a HW during an era where the level of competition was still very low. Naidan had a long judo career before the first judoinside result. In many countries you can be a national champion without any sign in judoinside. This is even more true in junior level. I did start when I was 8, but the first judoinside result is when I was 17.

Ogawa made in in 5 years to top. I know also some other HW. They might start when they are 15 and when 21 are on world level. HW is so different.
1/25/11 4:13 PM
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Considering the scope and talent pool in judo these days I don't think an adult prodigy(a freak natural athlete, but one with no sporting/wrestling background) will ever just pop up. I mean, the type of person with the potential to do it would have already gravitated to a sport and world-class competition as a kid, wouldn't they? I mean, even in boxing. That Argentinian kat, Martinez, who had that brutal KO recently. He came in to boxing at like 25 or something, which is pretty amazing, but if I'm not mistaken he came into it from professional football(soccer), so it's not like he wasn't already a world-class athlete used to the pace/pressure of competition at that level...

Regardless, I would've loved to have a seen a national coach from a country like France or Germany see BJ Penn at 18-19, as a bjj whitebelt, wrecking blackbelts in local judo tournaments. Let them have said, "hey! do you want to be a world/olympic champion? come train judo with me instead!", and considering what Penn accomplished in the next 10-12yrs(bjj world champion, ufc titles, having the best natural balance/takedown defense of anyone I've ever seen without a wrestling pedigree, etc) maybe we might actually have seen him become a modern judo prodigy. Never know!
1/25/11 7:03 PM
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judoblackbelt
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It would be nice to hear what BJJ Penn had to say about his judo possibilites and maybe why an Olympic medal wasn't a goal/dream of his. Or why he didn't try to go further in the sport.
1/25/11 8:03 PM
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I would, too, but it's really anyone's guess. In my mind, however, it probably has something to do with his early successes giving him the wrong impression of judo(ie: bjj is a better/cooler style) and the availability of great coaching in Hawaii. I mean, he moved to CA and Brazil for awhile to train, but he also had very good coaches at home so he could train/improve without having to drastically alter his lifestyle.

Work-ethic probably has something to do with it. I'm not judging him or anyone else, of course. But the perception of him is that because his natural ability carries him so far already, he didn't really want or need to train hard(ie: like a professional) until what, the first loss to GSP? Before then, when world-class wrestlers like Couture couldn't take(or keep) him down, what's his motivation to really push himself and/or come into a fight in tremendous shape? The fight with Diego Sanchez gave us(me) a glimpse of what he's capable of when he really applies himself. But to make it in judo or wrestling he'd have to put up the kind of prep/effort daily and I just don't think he was/is willing to do it. Not when other options(bjj/mma) were available.

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