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Wrestling UnderGround >> Another Wrestling vs Judo


8/13/10 5:22 PM
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Truemanc3
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Another Wrestling vs Judo vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q_UHUnymoc&has_verified=1

go to 2.00 min.

hmmmm!
8/17/10 6:11 AM
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Brasco
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wrestling dominates Judo....easily....when in No gi....mismatch. wrestlerts train harder and are more consistant..
8/17/10 5:16 PM
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gbutts
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Brasco - wrestling dominates Judo....easily....when in No gi....mismatch. wrestlerts train harder and are more consistant..

are you serious? how can you make such a broad statement what black belt judo player have you beat in no-gi? I have wrestle internationally in freestyle and greco, and on two all marine corp teams. i have been wreslting and cmpeting in sambo for 35 years and i would not make such a statement. i have been doing judo for over 18 years and i'm tellling you that it all comes down to how the person trains. just because you see a couple of videos of wrestler beating some judo player it does mean the one sport is better than the other. i think you should be focusing on cross-training with judo people.
8/18/10 5:29 AM
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Gokudamus stole my name
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lol @ nobody actually watching the vid

8/20/10 6:24 PM
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LMFAO
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i train and have trained with several judo players black belts and 2nd 3rd dan...no gi takedown for takedown they get took down alot!with the gi they do the same to me tho
8/20/10 6:25 PM
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LMFAO
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gbutts - 
Brasco - wrestling dominates Judo....easily....when in No gi....mismatch. wrestlerts train harder and are more consistant..

are you serious? how can you make such a broad statement what black belt judo player have you beat in no-gi? I have wrestle internationally in freestyle and greco, and on two all marine corp teams. i have been wreslting and cmpeting in sambo for 35 years and i would not make such a statement. i have been doing judo for over 18 years and i'm tellling you that it all comes down to how the person trains. just because you see a couple of videos of wrestler beating some judo player it does mean the one sport is better than the other. i think you should be focusing on cross-training with judo people.
yourself and brasco..challenge match for charity??my moneys on brasco
9/24/10 8:00 AM
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RickRude
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some Judo dudes are legit badasses, but freestyle wrestlers are literally molded for grappling, takedowns, sprawling, scrambling, clinch... Phone Post
9/27/10 2:58 PM
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LeftBench
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LMFAO at the video
9/29/10 8:35 PM
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Empire
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google jason morris wrestling.

uses judo for the most part to win state championship.

9/29/10 8:35 PM
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Empire
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i will agree that in no gi the wrestler will usually dominate the judoka.
11/11/10 4:11 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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you guys are just stupid. becuase of your limited experience with the judo world in the USA you think that means something... your "friends" who are 2nd and 3rd -dan ranks probably cou;dnt stand on the mat with me for more than 30 seconds a piece in judo, or otherwise, and i am 8 years out of competition and in horrible shape now.

just becuase your experineces have been crappy doesnt mean they are accurate. i will put what i have done in Judo in training and pain and workload up against any D-1 level wrestler...

it must be nice to live in your ignorance.

both sports are fantastic.. and, if your head wasnt so buried in your dark hole, youd realize that judo and wrestling have a ton to offer to one another.
11/11/10 7:04 AM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Empire - google jason morris wrestling.

uses judo for the most part to win state championship.



That was pretty cool. Thanks!



It's not every day(especially these days) that you see upright wrestling(or in Morris' case, judo) in folkstyle. Sorta reminds me of the '09 Russian nationals video that had a ton of upright play and beautiful throws. So much more entertaining to watch than the crouching, leg attacks-only game that seems to be preferred today.
11/14/10 1:12 PM
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EasyTapper
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Empire - google jason morris wrestling.

uses judo for the most part to win state championship.



Awesome shit there. He makes it look sooooooo easy. Very Machida-esque.
1/17/11 4:36 PM
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A_Butler
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Lol...... These sport vs sport threads always get me...... It's SOOO stupid to just pronounce one style beats the other...... It's all up to the person competing. To write off one and claim that it's useless is just ignorant. Phone Post
1/21/11 10:59 AM
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NOEL1973
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wellfor sure women cant wrestle
1/27/11 11:11 AM
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HULC
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The Judo girl had a good double on her.
1/27/11 2:53 PM
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LeisterBowlingIII
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 I have had the opportunity to coach wrestling to one of U.S. best Judo players (alternate in 2004) Kenny Hashimoto at University of Northern Colorado. He was able to transition very well to wrestling with his Judo Background and was ranked pretty high D1. Never was All-American but beat some real good guys. He had a very different style and when he mixed up his shots and his foot sweeps he was amazing to watch. Here is a link to a match I found quick on flowrestling (not sure if it's a good one or not!!)
http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/236003-2009-northeast-duals/216908-141-kenny-hashimoto-northern-colorado-20-3-356-anwar-goeres-binghamton

I have also wrestled "no gi" with Brian Olson who was a 2-3 time Olympian for U.S. and without a gi it is a different world. A lot of his best moves leave him in a bad position even if he would have scored big in Judo he would end up in crab ride and I would have back control and probably get some near fall points.

All of that said, if I was to put on a gi (which I have tried) he would smash me in a judo match!!!!

1/27/11 4:21 PM
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^Thanks for the video. Pretty cool.

Now as for judo vs. wrestling re: techniques vs. bad position, the simple fact is given the nature of the gi judo is just not as 'tight' as wrestling, so when even high level judoka take it off(who haven't wrestled or done much nogi before) a lot of their best techniques go away depending on the type of player they were.

Take me for example. Am I a world-beater? Absolutely not. But at the same time, I was the type of player who threw a lot of soto/harai-makikomis in judo compeitition and I also wrestled later in life. Would I throw makikomis in a nogi/wrestling match? Not likely. The set up requires you to loosen/break your tie-up in order to position yourself for the throw which means you're basically giving up neutral/dominant position which is never a good thing. Even when you do an arm throw the set up comes off the tie and you maintain at least one hand/arm on the opponent as you position yourself for the throw, and even if they defend/counter you you're most times still able to scramble back to neutral just from the nature of the tie-up and/or your body rotation/spin for the throw itself. No getting pancaked face first or suplexed the way you might if makikomi goes wrong.

That said, with solid greco ties/clinch fighting there's not many throws in judo that won't, or don't already work, in wrestling. Just watch the 2009 Russian nationals video. Except for the lifts(in judo there's really only 1 lift/suplex; uranage) you're basically seeing everything you see in judo, including sacrifice throws like sumi-gaeshi. The difference being Russia is one of, if not *the* foremost wrestling nations on earth, and their judo-sambo-wrestling programs are/always have been blended/blurred to the point that everybody trains with everybody so the transition(of techniques) from one sport to another is much smoother since they have the base/tradition in all 3 sports to know which techniques best fit a particular environment, as well as to make sure each competitor is thoroughly schooled(ie: judoka getting good with greco/wrestling tie ups) in order to be competitive.

I really wish we(America) would do the same thing with our olympic judo/wrestling programs on an systemic level, but I guess it's not realistic since we have a hard enough time just finding money enough to support/treat our athletes like the professionals they are. But I digress... ;)
1/27/11 5:45 PM
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LeisterBowlingIII
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 I agree with you especially in Freestyle Judo can be very efficient because you get points for exposure. I guess since I was referring to Kenny I was thinking Folkstyle/Collegiate. I can tell you that Kenny was probably one of the most exciting wrestlers I have ever coached. His style was so unorthodox and you never knew what was coming next.

Watching guys get foot swept and not know how it happened was priceless! I took GSP with me to one of our dual meets against Air Force and Kenny hit 3-4 different sweeps and on the ride home Georges called one of his coaches and was talking about how impressive it was.

http://www.purefight.org/speaker/2525/video/145316-georges-st-pierre
 is an interview I did with him at the dual

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234230-northern-colorado/78347-kenny-hashimoto-judo-and-wrestling   Hashimoto talking Judo and Wrestling

1/27/11 6:17 PM
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Yeah, in folkstyle the low crouching stance and emphasis on rides/pinning is a more hostile environment for judo. It's not hard to see how a judoka would get suckered into a pinning combination from a failed throw or that folkstylers are suckers for footsweeps. The experience and skill-sets are just different for both(folkstyle/judo). Meaning, how many times in judo do you face an opponent who low-crouches the whole time and shoots doubles/singles before you can even tie up? And with folkstyle, how much exposure does the average wrestler get to outside influences/techniques from cadet to college? Like I said before, our wrestling programs are lacking in terms of support, and as a result it's really only now that we're sending our kids overseas to train/compete so they get the experience they need in order to be successful at the next level(s). For most, however, what they learn in high school and college rooms is all the extent/totality of wrestling in their minds/experience.

Nevertheless, I found and posted this on another thread recently and thought it'd be fitting here.

I'm sure you probably know who Tadaaki Hatta is, right? Well, here's an interview with him talking about his family's influence on wrestling in Japan as well as it(wrestling) and his father's connection to judo.

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/235197-btw-camp-june-7-11/186481-the-first-family-of-wrestling-in-japan

http://judoinfo.com/images/kano/kano-hatta.jpg

^Hatta's father with the founder of judo, Jigoror Kano, circa 1937.

So you can see the whole judo-wrestling discussion has been going on since the beginning. In fact, at least a few judo techniques come directly from wrestling by way of Kano's research and men like Ichiro Hatta and Mitsuyo Maeda who trained/competed as wrestlers.
1/29/11 11:36 AM
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LeisterBowlingIII
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I hadn't seen those videos. Pretty cool!!

I am excited for that fight
2/11/11 1:51 PM
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Dirty Grappler
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Before the Draconian rule changes in sport judo, wrestling translated very easily into club level or regional level judo... Now with the no leg grab rule, not so much... On the other hand every throw in judo that does not require a jacket is done regularly in international level wrestling... Some IJF nuthuggers have gone on to say wrestlers who throw are using "judo"... No, they are using wrestling ... Judo is about 120+ years old, wrestling is over 5000 years old... Many of Kano's Judi syllabus came from WRESTLING!
2/11/11 9:50 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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^Yes and no.

Judo is certainly not without its politics, and in times past(especially in America where we love the classical upright style, despite our cacc/folkstyle heritage) judo(ka) has shown its prejudice(s) against wrestlers as they entered/dominated judo tournaments(even at blackbelt level). I'll have to find the blackbelt article again, but back in the day(60s-70s), Hayward Nishioka(famous judoka who trained with Bruce Lee and threw Rickson Gracie in Rorion's "Gracie Judo Invasion" video) wrote an article about the controversy surrounding wrestlers in judo tournaments. Judoka were *pissed*...especially b/c the handful of wrestlers who were competing in judo, were doing so with minimal training(literally, like a handful of practices just to learn the gi grips and competition rules), to the point that one of them finished 2nd(if I'm not mistaken) in the U.S. Olympic trials. He lost on somekind of decision, or else he(a wrestler with less than 1yr of judo) would've become an olympian. lol

Nevertheless, as shitty as the new rules are(that are really only hurting judo itself, b/c the player they targeted, a former Mongolian folk wrestler, is still a tremendous judoka in his own right), they were/are introduced with judo's best interests in mind...ie: its uniqueness from other wrestling styles maintaining its popularity. I don't like the rules myself b/c they go against judo's traditions, but they're not too different from the rules separating freestyle from greco roman. At somepoint along the way, someone said "hey! don't grab the legs!!", and now nobody cares/bitches because greco is still such a great style.
2/12/11 10:43 AM
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Dirty Grappler
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^ True, BUT... In wresting you have the OPTION of competing freestyle or Greco... Judo has now eliminated all options... Judo has declared if you want to play, you will play the way WE think you should play or you won't play at all... The Olympics and the IJF have ruined judo... If a "pure" judoka wants to defeat a wrestler, then develop your skill to counter his... The IJF's answer is, well it's to difficult for us to deal with wrestlers so we will ban techniques that favor their style...
2/12/11 2:28 PM
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Dirty Grappler - ^ True, BUT... In wresting you have the OPTION of competing freestyle or Greco... Judo has now eliminated all options... Judo has declared if you want to play, you will play the way WE think you should play or you won't play at all...


Correct. And it sucks. But I'm hoping it's a short-lived rule change. Judoka will do their best but I'm willing to bet the IJF will see the error of its ways during the 2012 London Games.

Nevertheless, here is the Nishioka article. It's funny (to me) that something so trivial as a handful of decent college wrestlers choosing to compete in judo would cause such a stir that an article was written (about the controversy) AND published in a major martial arts magazine. Crazy!

http://books.google.com/books?id=iM4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA28

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