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Anaconda No-Gi UnderGround >> Guy in gi vs No Gi


10/5/10 4:50 PM
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shlever
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Everyone always whines about "gi vs no gi" training this and effectiveness that but nobody ever talks about "guy in gi vs no gi"

... Lets pick apart the Gi optional format. Who has the advantage and opinions on what would happen at the top tiers of competition.
10/5/10 10:53 PM
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asscobra
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Gis are optional in ADCC but it doesn't make sense to wear one.
By doing so you'd be giving your oponent a lot more grips and yours would still be limited  
10/5/10 11:45 PM
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shlever
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The flip side of grips is traction for executing submissions or holding position. Who has the pure advantage? Who would win more matches if you took the top 10 players from each style? Phone Post
10/6/10 10:41 AM
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BigSifu
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 Last monday I rolled @ class with a buddy who's about 240. He lost his belt,and threw off his top while we rolled. I felt like I was at the disadvantage. In fact,he defended his back by grabbing MY sleeves!
10/6/10 2:14 PM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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asscobra - Gis are optional in ADCC but it doesn't make sense to wear one.
By doing so you'd be giving your oponent a lot more grips and yours would still be limited  


classic problem in the Royce Gracis/ Kazushi Sakuraba grudge matches was that Royce kept coming in a gi, in the 90 min long fight, Sakuraba constantly controlled and threatened Royce by using his gi against him!
10/7/10 9:51 AM
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shlever
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Edited: 10/07/10 9:51 AM
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Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?
10/7/10 10:24 AM
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BigSifu
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shlever - Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?

 So if there's no clear advantage to wearing the Gi....
10/7/10 2:30 PM
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shlever
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BigSifu - 
shlever - Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?

 So if there's no clear advantage to wearing the Gi....



...then it is still up for debate.
10/8/10 11:57 AM
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ArthurKnoqOut
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BigSifu - 
shlever - Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?

 So if there's no clear advantage to wearing the Gi....


OK better one..Yoshida choked out Royce with the gi, he would've been able to do so had he been a shoot wrestler and not rely on his gi but the fact is that the gi worked against Royce..also in the Sakuraba fight it would've been over when Saku attempted that very gnarly kneebar at the end of the first round (if i remember correctly) and it was the Gracie's request to get rid of judges and refs and time limits in that fight and still Saku won. Also, Sakuraba has said that he didn't push for submissions because he knew Royce's conditioning wouldn't keep up with his.


10/10/10 6:35 PM
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hordvitnir9
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BigSifu -  Last monday I rolled @ class with a buddy who's about 240. He lost his belt,and threw off his top while we rolled. I felt like I was at the disadvantage. In fact,he defended his back by grabbing MY sleeves!


Lol ive been no-gi and defended RNCs like that.
10/18/10 3:21 AM
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RaginRedneck169
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 I would venture to say the real answer is it depends on who the Gi and No-Gi guys were.  I've rolled with guys that mainly use their opponent's Gi against them and rarely use theirs for chocks, blocks, etc.  I've also rolled with guys that hardly ever use their opponents gi and use the hell out of their's.  It all depends on the player and what type of game they utilize.
10/19/10 4:43 PM
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TheRealMKL
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Didn't Saulo fight and beat Jeff Monson in a nogi match while wearing his gi top?
10/20/10 12:13 PM
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Cockblock
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 Just to clear up the historical and logistical inaccuracies in this thread:

1) Yoshida did not choke out Royce.  He simply applied an ezequiel, which was unsuccessful, but unfortunately ruled otherwise.  Subsequent review of the match makes this very clear.

2) In ADCC, the gi is optional, but you are not allowed to grip the clothing of your opponent (see Popovitch vs. Garcia).  Hence, Saulo wore the gi against Monson twice because Monson sweats like crazy and Saulo reasoned the gi would mitigate the effects of the sweat.  It actually worked a little bit, but Saulo still lost.

3) The best example of gi vs. No gi has been the performance of Rener and Ryron Gracie, who typically wore their gis in matches and still won.  Rener's performance in the So-Cal Pro-Am is probably the best tournament proof.
11/1/10 11:40 PM
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The Sultan
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 definitely depends on the 2 people grappling.

some guys in no gi wear the pants still for grip
11/4/10 1:50 AM
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elburrogrande
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BigSifu - 
shlever - Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?

 So if there's no clear advantage to wearing the Gi....


There are plenty of advantages specially if you are on top. Lots of chokes from the mount or side control. Not to mention Ezekiels from every angle. Having said that, I wouldn't wear a gi against an experienced opponent who is without one.
11/7/10 8:45 PM
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MurdochIRL
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www.youtube.com/watch 
11/29/10 2:29 AM
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AZ-Grappler
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Every once in a while some guy will come in and try a class without bringing a gi. (We are a traditional BJJ school and only go no gi every once in a while)

I have found from my own experience and from watching students it's a advantage to not wear the gi while rolling with someone who is wearing the gi.

I talked to Relson about it years ago and he says it's like a 60% advantage to the guy NOT wearing the gi...

11/30/10 7:57 AM
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joshjitsu
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Obviously the guy not wearing the Gi would have a huge advantage. Your also a complete tool if you come to Gi class without a Gi and decide to grab it during training. Phone Post
11/30/10 1:18 PM
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AZ-Grappler
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Not if you don't know any better. First class, never been on the mat before. The guy is a complete spas on the mat anyway.

Or maybe the guy wrestled in high school or something and now it's 5 or 6 years later and he wants to try BJJ but knows none of the etiquette.

I tell my guys to go grab a rash-guard and take off the gi top if they roll against a new guy trying out the class.



1/22/11 3:39 PM
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GRANBYTRIPOD1
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shlever - Wouldnt you say that the fact the fight was 90 min is a clear indicator there was no distinct advantage?


have you even seen this fight?
1/25/11 10:39 PM
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ReneH
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When rolling with strict gi guys I always look at their fingernails because if they don't keep them manicured, they will shred you like crazy. Last time I rolled with a gi dude using no gi, I looked like I was in a cat fight afterwards!

The guy practically tore my t-shirt off while rolling. Essentially, he was used to looking for handles that the gi offers on my t-shirt and my skin as well.
1/26/11 1:27 AM
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thebigkahuna
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^^^^^
lets not blame this on the gi. Everyone should trim their nails. gi or no
2/19/11 1:03 AM
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McLeod
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It totaslly depends on the experienece level of both. If the no gi guy has never rolled with a guy in a gi..he'll likely get choked..ezeqials, variations of loop chokes, using your own lapel for side mount chokes, etc. it can also secure better armlocks, reduce the sweat, make umaplatas tighter, etc etc...

If the guy in the no gi is a high level guy, especially with a gi, then the advantage is his IMO because he can attack the legs better, pass without his opponent having handles to slow it down, still use his opponents gi for chokes and handles, etc...

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