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Australasia UnderGround >> is this legal in comps in oz's????????


10/8/10 7:55 PM
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dingobjj
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azhgyPoQzGo



I have seen it done in comps in rio and in europe but i think here it will considered illegal under the afbjj rules

but they also DQ people for 50/50 guard
10/9/10 2:23 AM
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geraldbb
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http://www.ibjjf.org/rules.htm

FOULS NOT AS SERIOUS:

D-) When the athlete inserts his fingers inside the sleeves or pants, or with both his hands on his opponent's belt.

PENALTIES:

- On the first offence the offender will be given a verbal warning.

- On the second offence the offender's opponent will be given an advantage.

- On the third offence the offender's opponent will be given two points.

- After the third offence the referee may disqualify the athlete for any further fouls.
10/9/10 4:15 AM
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dojo stormer
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why would it be illegal?

grabbing the belt? i don't see anything wrong with it
10/9/10 5:55 AM
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geraldbb
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I don't know why it is illegal.

The rules aren't typically explained beyond obvious safety issues, and this doesn't appear to be safety related (though I'm pretty sure fingers inside the sleeve/pants is a safety issue).

If you did in an ibjjf rules competition, the referee would be obliged to penalise you according to the instructions above. Provided you only use one hand at a time on the belt, and the other elsewhere on the uniform, you aren't infringing the rules. I only watched Mario's pass technique once, but I think he uses both hands on the belt.
10/10/10 12:34 AM
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dingobjj
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in brazil the say that two hands can not be used on the belt to stall! eg if your in your guard and reach over your opponents back and grab his belt with to hands purely to hold him down and stall.

I was told by a ref in rio that the english translation of the rules is not every good and that there are a few points that arent correct.
10/10/10 3:05 AM
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geraldbb
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As before, I don't know why it is illegal.

I agree the english translation of the rules is poor. I looked at a rules summary, especially illegal techniques for the Machado competition this year, and that highlighted some issues with the translations also.

Right now I'm working on a Process Flow Diagram, aimed at helping referee's understand the scoring process, for each principle scoring position (mount, back control etc) and transitions (guard pass, sweep, takedown).

Refereeing according to the current ibjjf rules is challenging to say the least. There are many potential interpretations of the application of the rules, which means it is almost impossible to expect universal consistency.

Basically, you should expect to see some variation in different countries, and at different events. That is the nature of such a technical sport.

Hope that helps out.
10/10/10 3:19 AM
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JSho
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The AFBJJ recently stated they would be following the IBJJF rules to the letter with the exception of some caveats around no arm in guillotines iirc (if the ref thought it was a crank he would dq).

I can see why 2 hands on the belt might be considered illegal if the athletes were standing (as it is in judo iirc), but seems silly for when they are on the ground.

The rules in Portuguese on the CBJJ site and those in English on the IBJJF site do have some discrepancies in the translation but nothing to fundamental that i recall.
10/11/10 8:28 PM
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AvAMajestic
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Though admittedly I haven't competed in a few years now, I used a both hands on the belt guard pass in numerous competitions and nobody said a thing.

I can't see why it would be illegal, it was my favourite guard pass :(
10/18/10 12:16 PM
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geraldbb
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Thanks JSho, I was going to mention it is also illegal in Judo.
10/19/10 10:25 PM
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Khabeer Rockley
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