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10/19/10 4:01 PM
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J Flip
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In contrast to Fake Pie...

I wound up taking 17 credits my last semester due to my refusal to add up how many credits I had previously taken. I had to write 4 papers and take 2 exams. I never went to class. I fell into a deep depression and slept most of the time. I didn't have a job. I drank a lot and spent most my loans going out with girls. I turned in half my papers _after_ the end of the finals period.

I'm still not sure what happened or how it happened, but somehow got As in most of my classes and got the highest grade in a couple. I also got damn near the lowest grade in one. The job didn't come until later, and the depression loomed for months.

spirit = broken.
10/19/10 4:16 PM
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ceiling_cat
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J Flip - In contrast to Fake Pie...

I wound up taking 17 credits my last semester due to my refusal to add up how many credits I had previously taken. I had to write 4 papers and take 2 exams. I never went to class. I fell into a deep depression and slept most of the time. I didn't have a job. I drank a lot and spent most my loans going out with girls. I turned in half my papers _after_ the end of the finals period.

I'm still not sure what happened or how it happened, but somehow got As in most of my classes and got the highest grade in a couple. I also got damn near the lowest grade in one. The job didn't come until later, and the depression loomed for months.

spirit = broken.


thats pretty much how my 3L year went :( I'm still pretty bitter about having to waste that time and money, especially considering Texas takes another 5 months to grade your bar exam. I'm still waiting for my results and consequently still unemployed.
10/20/10 6:33 AM
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Subadie
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Edited: 10/20/10 12:49 PM
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Wow, my experience was really different than the rest of you. I was a 1L going in with the idea that I was going to be get good grades, etc. My first semester, I really studied. For torts, I studied super-hard and did a really great job (I thought) on the exam. I got a C. Baffled by this outcome, I completely changed my approach.

After this, my goal was to graduate with "gentleman C"s throughout law school. I finished around the top 60 %(Although its pretty cool how the entire UG/LG was top 5%, I can not be included in that group). With little stress about grades, I took advantage of the wonderful professors. The cases I thought were interesting and the professors had a lot to say - it was a good school with good professors mixed with the bad ones.<br /><br />I really felt like I came to begin to understand what the law was all about, and I was happy. This is what law school should be for, IMHO.
10/20/10 8:11 AM
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419
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My school has an attendance policy.
10/21/10 7:15 PM
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Fake Pie
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419 - What is an academic year fellow?


A clerk. Summer associate but not during the summer and they get to pay them less (I assume).
11/18/10 12:41 PM
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419
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Wouldn't working through 3L be even worse?
11/19/10 2:52 PM
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Fake Pie
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I wouldn't recommend it. Was just responding to your question.
11/19/10 4:00 PM
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419
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Which is more miserable: working through 3L or not having a job and thus still caring about GPA?
11/23/10 11:50 AM
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Subadie
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So Art, you are offended by the professors lack of willingness to force the students (not you of course) to learn from them ?

The professors are offering their experiences and expertise to teach you, and this is what your tuition goes to. For me, and I imagine most of your profs, it would be a paycut to be a teacher.

The students are not 14 years old. If they choose not to seek to learn, then I dont see why they should be forced to do so.

How were you able to "walk all over them" ? Is it that you were able to choose not to learn from them without adverse consequences ? Is this why you feel "stragely disgusted," because you let this opportunity slip past unfulfilled ?
11/23/10 2:22 PM
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Fake Pie
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Wow, you can "get away" with doing the bare minimum so he sucks as a professor?

So you need to be forced to participate or it is the professor's fault? His job is to convey information in a manner that most are able to assimilate it. He is not a babysitter. It sounds like you think you are still in high school.
11/23/10 4:13 PM
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419
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Assuming the school has an attendence policy, should the professor be required to facilitate stimulating discussion?
12/1/10 8:02 PM
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419
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Should professors be required to utilize the socratic method?
12/1/10 10:42 PM
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J Flip
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419,
I believe that the current ABA policy requiring good and regular attendance has led to mandatory attendance-taking in all law schools. If I am mistaken, please correct me.

it's led to mandatory attendance policies. some professors enforce these, and some do not.
12/2/10 2:30 PM
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419
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Which courses are not suited to the Socratic method?
12/2/10 5:27 PM
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J Flip
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419 - Which courses are not suited to the Socratic method?

those in which the professor is not a suitable socrates
12/3/10 10:08 AM
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419
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Should schools place more emphasis on classroom demeanor and less on writing articles that nobody will ever read?
12/3/10 4:16 PM
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Subadie
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This is an interesting thread for me. My friend/former colleague got a job several years back as a professor at a mid Tier 1 school. On 5-6 occasions I have been a guest lecturer ; that is taught his 101 class (typically 40-85 people) for one full class period, and one time I taught his more advanced class (8 people) for one class period. He usually sits in on the 101 class, but not for the advanced class.

I can tell you that I know my field very well, but teaching a class is MUCH harder than I expected. Am I supposed to use the Socratic method ? What does that mean ? For me, it means that I talk about something, raise a related point as a question and then randomly pick out somebody from the class to answer it. Sometimes I have gotten good feedback, but have also been told I am boring !

People are idiots in general. How do you deal with them when they are actively expressing their idiocy ? Some eople ask good questions, some people ask bad questions, and some people play on the computer. My classes are recorded from the back of the classroom, so the computer screens people are using can be seen. I dont care if they want to learn or not. I have a lot to teach them, and if they dont want to learn - who cares.
12/4/10 9:16 AM
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J Flip
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419 - Should schools place more emphasis on classroom demeanor and less on writing articles that nobody will ever read?

lol schools should place more emphasis on training students to be lawyers.
12/4/10 3:15 PM
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J Flip
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Edited: 12/04/10 3:15 PM
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Art Corvelay - J Flip,

I take 419's question as one pertaining to the grading of professors--as in, Professor X is published by every law review and is a perennial symposium speaker, but he receives horrible performance evaluations from students and goes through the motions repeating last years notes verbatim. Is this good or bad?

oh yeah i completely read that wrong. woops.
As for your view, I assume you are stating that schools should place considerably more focus on clinics and externships, and raise their skills credit requirements. There are many published articles questioning the merits of both approaches to this practice. From a student perspective, I would agree in that I feel I am not adequately prepared for practice through mere classroom learning, which is why I have taken steps beyond that. However, in ten years I may find my seemingly wasteful classes to be valuable experiences.

yeah, but you'll probably have a lot more classes where you'll think "I wish would have learned this" but you didn't.

you are writing like someone who just took a law school exam. is this true?
12/5/10 11:25 AM
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419
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Why not replace the current system with two years of law school and a paid apprenticeship?
12/5/10 11:55 AM
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419
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Is there anything you learned in a 3L academic class that you couldn't have gotten from a hornbook?
12/5/10 12:34 PM
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Fake Pie
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Yeah I took a drafting class my last year that was great. Basically the professor would give you a form doc, a term sheet and would tell you to revise it... that is exactly what you will do as a transactional first year associate, so I thought it was great. It was very helpful when I started working. Definitely put me a few solid assignments ahead of the rest of the crowd.

I also took a secured transactions class. Unless you get dropped into that practice area, you aren't going to get a lot of opportunities to learn it in practice as those issues are usually given to a UCC "specialist." I am not someone that will force myself to learn something on my own time either, so it was nice that I had some basic knowledge in the area as it has led to me getting to work on some things I otherwise doubt I would have.

Yeah I could have taken those classes 2L, but there is only so much time and so many classes to fit in that time.

Generally though I agree that law school could easily be 2 years.
12/5/10 1:58 PM
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419
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Could one argue that drafting is a practical skills class and not an academic class?
12/13/10 2:53 PM
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Fake Pie
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419 - Could one argue that drafting is a practical skills class and not an academic class?


I didn't read your adjective as a limitation.
12/14/10 9:16 AM
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419
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So what you're saying is that I need to take a drafting class?

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