UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> My MMA Striking Observations IMHO

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

10/25/10 2:01 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Sam Sheridan
37 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/9/04
Posts: 608
I also think there is some kind of cognitive disconnect, when fighters go from striking to grappling and back. I think different parts of the brain are working, and sometimes it takes a moment to adjust--how guys come out of the clinch and get tagged with their hands down, etc.
10/25/10 2:21 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zedlepln
226 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/24/09
Posts: 9459
androushka - Feel a bit stupid answering a q directed to Duke Roufus, but for what it's worth, I often have one guy push the pace and one guy try to lower the pace, also one guy hunting for clinch,the other stay out of the clinch. It just helps sometimes to have a task, otherwise everyone tend to just do what they're allready good at and never learn to fight a different kind of game (this is muay thai)
Thanks for the answer, and I directed it @ Duke Roufus and any other trainers.

I like your thinking. I feel that it helps "compartmentalize" aspects of MMA.
10/25/10 2:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zedlepln
226 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/24/09
Posts: 9460
Sam Sheridan - I also think there is some kind of cognitive disconnect, when fighters go from striking to grappling and back. I think different parts of the brain are working, and sometimes it takes a moment to adjust--how guys come out of the clinch and get tagged with their hands down, etc.
This is why, when you shark tank, it's a good idea to also rotate striking, clinch, grappling at the same time.

Interestingly, I've heard Roxy mention this practice is unusual in Japan.
10/25/10 3:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ogami Itto
232 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/12/02
Posts: 45124
Sam Sheridan - 
My two cents is there is way too much boxing style sparring in MMA training, headgear and 16 oz gloves, and guys get used to mauling each other AND taking shots to give them, which doesn't work with 4 oz gloves. Sure do a little, for timing and for the urgency, but there is a point when it gets counter-productive, from what I've seen.


I agree. I've been saying for a while that MMA fighters would do well to go back to karate for techniques, which usually gets me dismissed on the UG - by muds and blues, not usually by greens. But karate can be very good for MMA - you only get a few blows before clinch, kicks cover the distance into fists, etc., and karate programs for this very well.
10/25/10 3:34 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
mrgoodarmbar
143 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/10/05
Posts: 1360
I'm not trying to speak as an expert, since I'm a grappler. However, it seems to me that one of the main problems is that fighters aren't using proper defense while throwing punches...The left shoulder isn't protecting the chin during the jab. One hand isn't staying home protecting while the other is throwing. I see a ton of overhand rights where there's so much follow through that the guy turns and ducks his head as part of the follow through, losing sight of his opponent in the process rather than keeping your eyes on your opponent and using his shock absorbers. So they are either punching or getting punched rather than blocking or slipping as they're throwing.

You hear Rogan say all the time...."They were both throwing his just landed first" You can see that both guys are totally wide open.
10/25/10 3:46 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jimmy23
133 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 68392
 
10/25/10 3:50 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
473 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 1528
Roufusport Academy, Owner
Great points everybody!

I do a lot of situation training like coach androushka. Drills make skills!

Dutch Kickboxing awesome at this.

I do not want to sound full of myself. I am told I have good speed for a heavyweight. What I lack in Athletic ability I make up for with studying my opponent while I fight & always try to out postion him. I try to put myself in positions I can hit & he has a harder time hitting me. I wished it worked every time! In MMA it is crucial w/little gloves.
10/25/10 4:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
groundfighter2000
557 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 29386
dentalninja - FightScientist...

Do you know who Duke Roufus is, Bro?


THIS
10/25/10 10:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
473 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 1529
Roufusport Academy, Owner
mrgoodarmbar - I'm not trying to speak as an expert, since I'm a grappler. However, it seems to me that one of the main problems is that fighters aren't using proper defense while throwing punches...The left shoulder isn't protecting the chin during the jab. One hand isn't staying home protecting while the other is throwing. I see a ton of overhand rights where there's so much follow through that the guy turns and ducks his head as part of the follow through, losing sight of his opponent in the process rather than keeping your eyes on your opponent and using his shock absorbers. So they are either punching or getting punched rather than blocking or slipping as they're throwing.

Exactly! Good posture while striking is key!
10/26/10 1:04 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OUTCOLD
35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/11/06
Posts: 554
WOW great thread and some great posts. Some great advice here for MMAers who want to develop some decent standup.
10/26/10 9:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
473 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 1531
Roufusport Academy, Owner
I agree OUTCOLD!
10/26/10 9:33 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lkfmdc
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11470
Got a minute now to post something....

I really agree that defense is undervalued and not trained as it should be

I also see some very questionable striking trainers associated with MMA

In terms of clinch for example, we still see major MMA people doing mistakes that are Muay Thai Clinch 101 "no no's"

Personally, I also think a lot of trainers have their formula for MMA, not a flexibility for each person they train

Personally, some guys I have trained I have said "well, you will be good with your hands, let's not even work kicks really"

But others you can teach the whole package.

IMHO, trainers need to be very serious about their jobs, put time AND consideration into how and what they are training with each individual
10/26/10 9:36 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Rox19
663 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 3442
ttt for improving striking
10/26/10 9:59 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Zedlepln
226 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/24/09
Posts: 9488
Rox19 - ttt for improving striking
Wow, Roxy joined us. This thread keeps getting cooler.
10/26/10 11:20 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
nottheface
249 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/2/02
Posts: 12018
for later
10/26/10 11:32 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
LiftStrong
35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10/26/10 11:32 AM
Member Since: 10/15/08
Posts: 1362
lkfmdc - 
IMHO, trainers need to be very serious about their jobs, put time AND consideration into how and what they are training with each individual
I completely agree with what you are saying here, but I think some owness needs to be put on the athlete themselves.  If an athlete truely wants to excel in their sport, they need to be willing to search out for the best coaches and the best sparring partners.  Sometimes there are time/financial constraints that make this difficult, but if you want to be great at something, especially as physically and mentally demanding as combat sports, you have to commit yourself to it 100%.  

Here are some issues an athlete needs to consider, related to coaching:
1.  Is your coach training you to your strengths or your weakness?   It is easy to make an amateur fighter look great in the gym and win a bunch of fights if they have one overwhelming strength that you capitalize on.  But if you arent working on your weaknesses from day one, you will be at a huge disadvantage when you run into an opponent who can defend against your strength. 

2.  What is your coach doing to get better?  Not all coaches are like a Duke Roufus or Phil Nurse who have a ton of experience and knowledge from their fight careers.  That doesnt make them a bad coach, but you have to evaluate what your coach is trying to learn and bring to the table for their athletes to improve.  Does your coach show an interest in learning and trying new things, or are they of the opinion that they have already seen and done it all?

3.  Is the fighter/athlete LISTENING and acting on what the coach is teaching?  So many fighters go into sparring trying to win rather than improve.  Many also have a hard time getting used to something new or difficult/uncomfortable for them so they just ignore or avoid the advice.  If you arent willing to put in the work, it doesnt matter how good your coach is. 

  
10/26/10 12:05 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jellyman
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 26354
My threads Phone Post
10/26/10 12:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lkfmdc
4 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 11471
It takes a long time to get used to kicking, even more so in an environment with wrestling. If you did sanshou/san da (ie cung, etc) you can kick in MMA without much (if any) adjustment period.

If your background is Muay Thai, it will take some "twiking" to get used to the wrestling aspect

If you never kicked before? Well, next quesiton, are you "light on your feet" or do you "thud"?

I have trained two grapplers (as example). One was very "thud" but had very good wrestling (takedowns, shooting, top control, etc). Worked a ton of "boxing" (not really boxing, but that is another thread)

Had the second one, was actually a good jiu jitsu person, was light on his feet standing up. We worked some kicks into his game. ALSO weren't as worred about the kick because he was very good off his back
10/26/10 4:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jellyman
7 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 26356
There are 5 elements to defense plus 2 special elements that I teach at Straight Blast Gym in Portland. Any technique from any of those elements can be used together in tandem or in sequence for a large variety of defensive combinations


Any relation to Hsing-I chuan?
10/26/10 8:45 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
LEMon
164 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 8008
ttt
10/26/10 8:58 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
caposa
1926 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 10/8/07
Posts: 5969
sub'd

great thread
10/27/10 1:18 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
OUTCOLD
35 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 6/11/06
Posts: 559
lkfmdc - Got a minute now to post something....

I really agree that defense is undervalued and not trained as it should be

I also see some very questionable striking trainers associated with MMA

In terms of clinch for example, we still see major MMA people doing mistakes that are Muay Thai Clinch 101 "no no's"

Personally, I also think a lot of trainers have their formula for MMA, not a flexibility for each person they train

Personally, some guys I have trained I have said "well, you will be good with your hands, let's not even work kicks really"

But others you can teach the whole package.

IMHO, trainers need to be very serious about their jobs, put time AND consideration into how and what they are training with each individual



Agree 100%
10/27/10 1:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
The Sultan
246 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/12/06
Posts: 25863
FightScientist - 
dentalninja - FightScientist...

Do you know who Duke Roufus is, Bro?
You are kidding right? First off, I just forgot to quote the "SUBPAR" comment I was mostly referring to. Second of all, 2 guys can have different opinions. I am a huge fan of Duke's fighters. I was not speaking to his comments as much as the general perception noted by the next comment, that MMA striking is subpar.
 

 In fairness, you did ask where he trained, lol.
10/27/10 8:14 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
473 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Edited: 10/27/10 8:15 AM
Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 1532
Roufusport Academy, Owner
LiftStrong - 
lkfmdc - 
IMHO, trainers need to be very serious about their jobs, put time AND consideration into how and what they are training with each individual
I completely agree with what you are saying here, but I think some owness needs to be put on the athlete themselves.  If an athlete truely wants to excel in their sport, they need to be willing to search out for the best coaches and the best sparring partners.  Sometimes there are time/financial constraints that make this difficult, but if you want to be great at something, especially as physically and mentally demanding as combat sports, you have to commit yourself to it 100%.  

Here are some issues an athlete needs to consider, related to coaching:
1.  Is your coach training you to your strengths or your weakness?   It is easy to make an amateur fighter look great in the gym and win a bunch of fights if they have one overwhelming strength that you capitalize on.  But if you arent working on your weaknesses from day one, you will be at a huge disadvantage when you run into an opponent who can defend against your strength. 

2.  What is your coach doing to get better?  Not all coaches are like a Duke Roufus or Phil Nurse who have a ton of experience and knowledge from their fight careers.  That doesnt make them a bad coach, but you have to evaluate what your coach is trying to learn and bring to the table for their athletes to improve.  Does your coach show an interest in learning and trying new things, or are they of the opinion that they have already seen and done it all?

3.  Is the fighter/athlete LISTENING and acting on what the coach is teaching?  So many fighters go into sparring trying to win rather than improve.  Many also have a hard time getting used to something new or difficult/uncomfortable for them so they just ignore or avoid the advice.  If you arent willing to put in the work, it doesnt matter how good your coach is. 

  


Comments on:

#1 I talk about this daily in training! What happens when they are prepared for my strength. Fighters that are not well rounded panic in combat when this happens and usually start to throw wild shots. They either get caught or gas out.

#2 I try to stay on the learning curve of our sport. What drives me is seeing fighters win! I have experience coaching fighters in MMA, K-1, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Boxing, WCL, Shidokan, PKA & Karate. The one thing I take from all the different styles is how to coach athletes to win under the rules of combat. If you re not getting better, you are getting worse!

#3 This a common scenario. It happens to often. I would rather develop new skills & be champ on game day. I try to avoid making "Practice Room All-Americans" as Dan gable would say.

Great input everybody. Cool to share coaching concepts with everybody!
10/27/10 8:18 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Duke Roufus
473 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 4/7/05
Posts: 1533
Roufusport Academy, Owner
domerds1,

Thanks!


Amberlamps,

I think Roger is a cool cat.He would be welcome at Roufusport anytime. We have some good training partners for him: WEC's Anthony Pettis, Erik Koch & Dan Downes.

| Share | Email | Subscribe | Check IPs

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.