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UnderGround Forums >> My MMA Striking Observations IMHO


10/29/10 10:38 PM
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Duke Roufus
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Good Stuff E. Kaye!
11/1/10 9:43 AM
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Duke Roufus
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Great observations Sam!
11/11/10 12:42 PM
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Duke Roufus
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I have been approached about doing an intensive striking for MMA DVD instructional. Is anyone interested in seeing something like that?
11/11/10 12:55 PM
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Zedlepln
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Duke Roufus - I have been approached about doing an intensive striking for MMA DVD instructional. Is anyone interested in seeing something like that?
Where do I pre-order?

I hardly have time to watch instructionals, but I would make time for that!
11/11/10 1:02 PM
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GriffinQ
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Duke Roufus - I have been approached about doing an intensive striking for MMA DVD instructional. Is anyone interested in seeing something like that?

 duh
11/11/10 1:03 PM
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LiftStrong
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YES!  I would absolutely pre-order this. 

11/11/10 1:11 PM
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Sam Sheridan
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I would definitely like to see that. Especially with the drills. Anderson's video that Victory Belt made is pretty good, actually, although it's not really exhaustive, it's got some fun things to think about.

Maybe some countering drills? Seems like every KO I see is off a great counter. I wish I knew more drills for that stuff. Developing that timing.
11/11/10 11:13 PM
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Duke Roufus
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Thanks for the support!
11/12/10 12:07 AM
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sly fox
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Duke Roufus - I have been approached about doing an intensive striking for MMA DVD instructional. Is anyone interested in seeing something like that?

 absolutely, and dont forget to show us where defense in mma is missing :)
11/12/10 11:24 AM
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Kostakio
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ttt for Duke Roufus!
11/12/10 12:28 PM
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Duke Roufus
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Thanks everybody.
11/16/10 10:22 AM
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smoogy
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Edited: 11/17/10 9:11 AM
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Great thread, lots of interesting perspectives being presented.

Duke, are you surprised by how fighters considered to be among the best in MMA are so far behind in boxing/kickboxing compared to other parts of their skillset? Especially among American fighters? Obviously there are some exceptions, notably your own camp which has some very successful, creative strikers like Alan Belcher and Anthony Pettis. But it seems like there are countless fighters who shuck around outside kicking range trying to look like kickboxers, but lack the fundamental skills to consistently assert any offense. It's crazy to me how the vast majority seem to have a big overhand right as their go-to weapon, and yet only a tiny fraction of fighters are really using a jab at all. Basic combination punching is even more rare...  if you can throw a 1-2 and a 3-2, you're already way way ahead of the curve. Off the top of my head, it's difficult to think of many MMA fighters who can effectively mix punches, kicks and knees, etc.

As an example, take Okami vs. Marquardt. In the 3rd round particularly, Okami was battering Nate with 1-2s near the cage from southpaw, and Nate's response was to throw single right crosses as Okami stepped in... which didn't work very well. Okami is no apex predator, but he was obviously one notch higher on the food chain. This being a major title eliminator highlights just how primeval the evolution of striking in MMA is at this point, IMO.

Now, I know you have to consider the grappling component of MMA and how kickboxing skills need to be adapted to account for the takedown. But the fighters who can hold their own in the grappling department and prefer to keep it standing, AND possess sound kickboxing technique tend to rise to the top of the sport very quickly, as Pettis continues to do. So with that in mind, I hope that very soon we will see a proliferation of MMA athletes who have good fundamental boxing and kickboxing technique like defense, combination punching etc. just like there has been a proliferation of athletes with good fundamental grappling skills like throws and arm triangles. But it appears kickboxing has some catching up to do.
  
11/17/10 9:06 AM
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smoogy
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 bump
11/17/10 9:07 AM
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MurdochIRL
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ttt
11/17/10 9:16 AM
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Duke Roufus
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smoogy - Great thread, lots of interesting perspectives being presented.

Duke, are you surprised by how fighters considered to be among the best in MMA are so far behind in boxing/kickboxing compared to other parts of their skillset? Especially among American fighters? Obviously there are some exceptions, notably your own camp which has some very successful, creative strikers like Alan Belcher and Anthony Pettis. But it seems like there are countless fighters who shuck around outside kicking range trying to look like kickboxers, but lack the fundamental skills to consistently assert any offense. It's crazy to me how the vast majority seem to have a big overhand right as their go-to weapon, and yet only a tiny fraction of fighters are really using a jab at all. Basic combination punching is even more rare...  if you can throw a 1-2 and a 3-2, you're already way way ahead of the curve. Off the top of my head, it's difficult to think of many MMA fighters who can effectively mix punches, kicks and knees, etc.

As an example, take Okami vs. Marquardt. In the 3rd round particularly, Okami was battering Nate with 1-2s near the cage from southpaw, and Nate's response was to throw single right crosses as Okami stepped in... which didn't work very well. Okami is no apex predator, but he was obviously one notch higher on the food chain. This being a major title eliminator highlights just how primeval the evolution of striking in MMA is at this point, IMO.

Now, I know you have to consider the grappling component of MMA and how kickboxing skills need to be adapted to account for the takedown. But the fighters who can hold their own in the grappling department and prefer to keep it standing, AND possess sound kickboxing technique tend to rise to the top of the sport very quickly, as Pettis continues to do. So with that in mind, I hope that very soon we will see a proliferation of MMA athletes who have good fundamental boxing and kickboxing technique like defense, combination punching etc. just like there has been a proliferation of athletes with good fundamental grappling skills like throws and arm triangles. But it appears kickboxing has some catching up to do.
  


Great points smoogy!

America as a whole is very behind in MUay Thai/K-1/Kickboxing compared to the world.

We are very competitive in Wrestling, BJJ Graplling Judo,etc.

The hard part is getting enough time to get good at everything.

As well, I work very hard not to teach Muay Thai/Dutch kickboxing. Rather I have come up with a system or MMA Kickboxing that has some the elements of those arts.

I am not complaining that guys are struggling with striking. As long as our guys don't.
11/17/10 9:30 AM
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Pandanus
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^As far as the US being very behind what would you attribute that to? Would that be part and parcel of Kickboxing not really taking off in the US promotion wise thus stunting the development a bit?
11/17/10 9:33 AM
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Duke Roufus
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Edited: 11/17/10 9:36 AM
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Yes, that is why the US has never been a force in K-1
11/17/10 9:41 AM
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john joe
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what sort of things do you eliminate from MT/Dutch to make MMA Kickboxing?

I tend to sit a lot lower, let the teep and body kick go out the window when sparring under MMA rules, also use my hands much much more than kick or knee attacks; i try and avoid taking my foot off the floor unless the guy is wide open and (i think) its 100 per cent safe to do so.

What sort of changes do you make?
11/17/10 9:51 AM
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Ogami Itto
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Still love this thread.
11/17/10 9:56 AM
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smoogy
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There are some gyms producing good MMA kickboxers in the US besides just Duke's of course. Cung Le's camp and ATT stand out, plus there are teams importing Brazilian Muay Thai like Kings MMA (Rafael Cordeiro). But countries like Holland and Brazil have a rich legacy and tradition of kickboxing that continues to produce superior athletes. For example, one of the top LW prospects in MMA right now is Thiago Michel, who just won the WAKO World Cup in Sao Paolo in the 75kg division. His offensive arsenal and footwork are really impressive.








11/17/10 10:19 AM
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Ogami Itto
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Yes! Loving these vids!
11/17/10 10:28 AM
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smoogy
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Tarec Saffiedine is a really promising MMA kickboxer, his anti-takedown ability has rapidly improved training at Team Quest
11/17/10 7:16 PM
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Duke Roufus
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Both guys are fun to watch!
11/17/10 9:04 PM
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NinjaDMP
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Great thread. Thanks for the insight everyone. Phone Post
11/18/10 8:30 AM
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smoogy
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Marcos Pezao (LHW) is another great kickboxing prospect in MMA. He is something like 69-7 in muay thai/kickboxing, and 8-0 in MMA, with his last win coming over Paulo Filho via decision






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