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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> USING KESA GATAME IN NO-GI TOURNAMENTS


11/4/10 12:12 PM
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gbutts
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USING KESA GATAME IN NO-GI TOURNAMENT (YES OR N0)?
11/4/10 12:36 PM
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JerseyJoeJitsu
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 sure. although i always use the BJJ style kesa with the far side underhook. I'm not that good at keeping my weight down wtih my arm around the head.
11/4/10 5:08 PM
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Bull_in_chinashop
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 far side underhook! and then I've got an entire series I use for submissions americana, kimura, near side armbar, reverse triangle, reverse far side armbar,  knit choke, crucifix, threaded kimura.. 
11/5/10 7:15 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I have seen some grapplers with judo backgrounds pull up on the head/neck (from the grip around the head) into their ribcage area (to stop breathing), lean back a little to submit the opponent. I think you have to be somewhat strong to do this. They also place their outstretched leg under the shoulder,this prevents "uke: from any turning onto their side or generate movement to escape.
11/5/10 1:39 PM
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leothelion
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 Sure...Solid Judo works IMHO...whether you are wearing a gi, rashguard & grappling shorts, street clothes whatever...Get the Kesa...balanced...twist...lean back...crack those ribs...Ya baby!!!...  I have tapped opponents with just the Kesa...
11/8/10 9:16 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I watched that fight and some of his others and that is all brute force no resemblance to the tecknique. Switching to Ushiro is one natural progression in judo if for some reason you can't get the arm around the back of the head (or are lossing the hold) or uke is preventing you getting a good hold but have the arm trapped in your arm pit. I remember in one of the first UFC's when Oleg Taktarov submitted a guy with Kesa. Can't find the match on youtube. Oleg had excellent skills and one of the first true MMA ers.
11/9/10 9:37 PM
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KenTheWalrus
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Depends. If they are sweaty and bald then it will be easier for them to slip their head out. Make sure their shoulder is deep, towards your hips. I also try to get a piece of my shoulder on their chin to keep them from slipping out, and then drop my head so we're ear to ear.

If you go with the underhook (hon kesa gatame?) I try to get their arm between my legs for either an armbar or quick switch to a crucifix.

I have submitted guys by leaning back. I focus on putting pressure into their chest and then pulling up the head. It kinda works like a gator roll when I do it properly.

11/11/10 6:49 AM
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judoblackbelt
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flopsbunny- The video didn't come up on youtube when I typed in the search field. I am not the most computer literate but can you check the v= and let us know.
12/2/10 8:03 PM
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judoinmotion
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gbutts - USING KESA GATAME IN NO-GI TOURNAMENT (YES OR N0)?

Depends, If I have to use, I prefer makura kesa gatame. In my opinion is a tighter pin, I work the arm bars from there or simple switch to kata gatame or belly down arm triangle.
12/3/10 1:53 AM
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Robin Ashe
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Better hope you're good at it. I've yet to encounter a Judoka who could keep me there forever and not get his back taken. Far side underhook is a must.
12/3/10 7:49 AM
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judoblackbelt
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flopsbunny- thanks just watched it. Fedor pulled up on the head to increase the pressure on the chest and kind of did what judo in motion likes(and so do I) Makura kesa gatame. When you place your head against the side of the opponent's head they cannot turn into you to attempt an escape.
12/3/10 9:38 AM
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junon
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JerseyJoeJitsu -  sure. although i always use the BJJ style kesa with the far side underhook. I'm not that good at keeping my weight down wtih my arm around the head.


that would be wrestling style or side press, imho.

i prefer the headlock for some reason it just feels comfortable.

to me they feel so different they are 2 totally different moves.

with the underhook you have more options and its harder for opponent to take your back. however i feel they have more options to escape as well.

with the headlock they either take your back or bring you over.

i find it easier to finish the "Kimura with your legs" while using the headlock version.
12/10/10 11:13 AM
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Train Judo
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The key to kesa in a no-gi enviroment is controlling the near elbow...The no-gi escape is to free the near elbow and get it between yourself and your opponent and take their back..


Control the near elbow, if it is jerked from your grasp, bail out to another top posistion..Fairly simple when you live by this golden rule..

To much emphasis is made on other things and none of them matter..All that matters is controlling the near elbow.
12/10/10 12:48 PM
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judoinmotion
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Train Judo - The key to kesa in a no-gi enviroment is controlling the near elbow...The no-gi escape is to free the near elbow and get it between yourself and your opponent and take their back..


Control the near elbow, if it is jerked from your grasp, bail out to another top posistion..Fairly simple when you live by this golden rule..

To much emphasis is made on other things and none of them matter..All that matters is controlling the near elbow.

I agree, but I also think that makura is a better option to secure the elbow and head.
12/17/10 10:51 AM
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russkisambist
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love it!!! do it anytime i can . only backfired once vs multiple subs (bent armlock)
12/17/10 4:16 PM
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shen
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Train Judo - The key to kesa in a no-gi enviroment is controlling the near elbow...The no-gi escape is to free the near elbow and get it between yourself and your opponent and take their back..


Control the near elbow, if it is jerked from your grasp, bail out to another top posistion..Fairly simple when you live by this golden rule..

To much emphasis is made on other things and none of them matter..All that matters is controlling the near elbow.



The guy can still do a bridge & roll even if you control the near elbow.

Controlling the near elbow is very important, but it is not "all that matters" for Kesa gatame.

12/18/10 1:35 PM
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Train Judo
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Edited: 12/18/10 1:49 PM
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If he wants to give me his back or transition me to mount, he is free to roll!! I guess I could hold on for dear life like a retard and try and counter weight it using strength and other such wastes of time and energy but it's senseless since pins dont win anything beyond points in no-gi..I wouldnt suggest my guys do that though..So I stick by what I said. It isnt efficent to focus on holding a pin in a no gi match..It is efficent to let his reactions to said pin be his demise though...The key isnt to making it so there is no way out, the key is in booby trapping the paths you leave him as outs..IMO.
12/20/10 8:20 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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I was taught that if you have the near arm pulled upwards tight enough and close to your hip then the other arm around the head doesn't really matter. That said, I have never tried it no gi, though I assume it should work well that way.
12/20/10 9:07 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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CyborgRoyce - I was taught that if you have the near arm pulled upwards tight enough and close to your hip then the other arm around the head doesn't really matter. That said, I have never tried it no gi, though I assume it should work well that way.


Not exactly. To help maintain the position the head and shoulder need to be elevated. Your weight/center of gravity needs to be on your opponent's chest rather than off to side/on the ground, and you hips need to be 'alive' as well.

I'm not a big fan of Cecchine but he explains the textbook head & arm position pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYrmlA7TcO8

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