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MMA Photography UnderGround >> The Ultimate Sports Camera


11/20/10 3:59 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Edited: 11/20/10 4:01 PM
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Picked up the Nikon D3s last week, just in time to shoot MFC 27:Breaking Point
(Missed RITC 41 by a week)

Keeping the Nikon D700 for now as the 2nd body, since I have both the 24-700/2.8 and the 70-200/2.8 a second body sure helps a lot. Swithcing sucks!!

It is everything it's cracked up to be.

Had the 24-70/2.8 on it for the fight, as I shoot 90% with it, was a good choce for the night as most of the action was on my side.

70-200/2.8 was on the D700, the lens is soooo fast, looking forward to using it on the D3s


Was on sale at vistek.ca 
11/21/10 1:00 PM
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Sportmaster
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I have a d700 and those same lens. I am moving to the D3s too!

Tell us how the D3s compares to D700 for mma.
11/21/10 1:49 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Edited: 11/24/10 11:49 PM
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For me the jump to the D3s was simple, the buffer, everything else was a bonus.

ISO difference is noticeably better
Buffer is amazing...
Going greater then 2000ISO on the D700 effects buffer by 40%ish
Buffer loss on the D3s occures at 4000ISO by 50%

AF is noticeably faster, viewfinder layout is different, wasn't better or worse, just different.

Button layout is different from D700, takes a bit to get used to.
ISO QUAL WB have their own screen

Does feel better, even notice the small weigh difference.
As much of a "Pro" Camera the D700 is, the D3s feels and looks more so.

Still had 80% battery after 3300 images.

3300 is a high count for me, it is usually 1600-2400
I didn't hold down the shutter for more pictures, it was just able to keep up when there were combos

Images looked great, shot JPG (Fine), Manual Mode, and Manual WB


The 1 PRO the D700 has over the D3s is the playback zoom, D700 has dedicated buttons for zoom, D3s uses button + wheel, and doesn't zoom instantly. Wheel moves "frame" over full image and release button to zoom to that point.
I'd take a picture of it, but you actually need both hands to zoom...
So checking res and focus on tight spots takes a lot more work and time.
It's the one thing I actually HATE about the D3s
(It is possible I missed something and there is an easier way, will re-read the book)

I don't do video,
but I tried it for fun on a Press Conference, left it on a tripod with 70-200/2.8 and shot witht the D700 24-70/2.8.
Video was ok, I probably had the settings all wrong, but I'm sure I might use it once in a while for fun.

Was worth the $$$ even from upgrading from D700, might not be worth it too all from D700, but buffer and AF made a huge difference.

Here's hoping the D4 doesn't ship till late 2011!!    
11/21/10 2:05 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Edited: 11/21/10 2:12 PM
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The D700 was still my best purchase, specially for MMA.

The price and features are unbeatable, and still recomend it for people seriously looking to get into combat sport photography.

And the D700 + 24-70/2.8 would be better then just the D3s body.

I was lucky enough to buy it when it was 1st released and was my main body for just over 2 years, and is still the 3nd best camera for mma/sports.

Probably Nikon's best business move, since the D3

D300s
D700
D3s

If you went with Canon over any of these for sports/mma, your a *moron!
Let the Nikon/Canon flame wars begin!!!


*Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, and a common insult for a person considered stupid.
  
11/21/10 4:05 PM
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Sportmaster
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I wish we could see what the D800 might offer.
11/24/10 11:47 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Ya, I gave up on waiting, I will sell the D700 as soon as some verified rumors start coming out, hope not for a long time, still saving for money for labour on my GTR rebuild.

If you or anyone grabs the D3s, there is a setting i found for quick zoom during image playback.

MENU > Pencil menu > f1 > Playback Mode > Zoom > Medium

Sets it so when you push the cneter button during playback it auto zooms, not as good as dedicated zoom in/out, but makes a HUGE difference over button + wheel.

1/19/11 2:57 PM
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Sportmaster
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Don't waste your money on a D300 for MMA, get a used D700. You can start out with a cheap 50mm 1.8 lens for only $180.
1/20/11 8:46 AM
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Sportmaster
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Try craig's list.
7/12/11 6:10 PM
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Sportmaster
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Finally got that D3s. CC, everything you said about it is true.
7/17/11 9:25 PM
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tsiahk
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i use Canon, am i a moron?
7/17/11 9:29 PM
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tsiahk
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if money were no object or i shot only sports then D3s would be my choice for sure.
7/18/11 5:37 PM
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vegard
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7/18/11 10:38 PM
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cluster
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tsiahk - i use Canon, am i a moron?


If the Canon allowed you to take the photos on your site (especially the fight photos!), then I doubt you are a moron.
7/20/11 10:12 AM
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tsiahk
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most of the shots in my "fights" gallery were taken with either 20d or 5d and 50 1.4 or 85 1.8, i rarely use zooms for any of my photography
7/20/11 8:45 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Camera is a camera, and tsiahk has some great shots!

I used the 50/1.4 for a long time!
7/21/11 9:55 AM
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tsiahk
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some of the greatest sports shots were taken with field cameras like the photo above. Imagine composing and focusing with that camera and holding a flashbulb in your other hand?! ha
7/21/11 9:56 AM
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tsiahk
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and one shot at a time!
7/21/11 12:51 PM
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Sportmaster
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tsiahk is right. It's the photographer not the camera.
12/14/11 10:54 AM
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SnapLocally
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Old thread, but I'll chime in-

If you're a good photographer a top of the line camera will help you take a higher frequency of usable shots, but a good photographer will also make good use of any camera they have at their disposal. As an example, when I was in my first year of shooting fights I was shooting head to head with seasoned photojournalists- me with a plastic, amateur Canon XTi and a used 3rd party lens, them (plural) using 1DMKII bodies (again, plural) and "L" lenses. I would invariably come away with the better shots- not because I was "better" than them at what they do- photographic jacks of all trades- but because I was better at what I did, and what I had a passion for- Combat Sports Photography. I was a fight fan, studied the angles, recognized what I was seeing and watched for setups, worked at my timing. 

I've shot... fuck, I don't know, probably a hundred events now, give or take, but from my experience (and reviewing many a peer's work) is that when I see "top of the line equipment" 9 out of 10 times I see a photographer that probably should've saved their money and made the most with "lesser" equipment.

One of my favorite lines I hear as a photographer is

"nice shot- you must have a good camera"

It's tantamount to telling an established painter they must have "good paint".  
12/15/11 12:10 AM
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CombatCaptured
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But everyone likes to say it's not the camera, it's the photographer...
With regards to the "artsy" stuff, ABSOLUTLY!
BUT the Great potographers who get paid to shoot can/do upgrade their equipment.

And I see the exact opposite 9/10 times, and get the "it's not the camera" line from them.
Guys in Canon Rebels showing up and shooting for free.(or promoters who hire wedding photographers....)
I see grainy images and lots of blur, and missed shots, portfolios with 80shots per bout and 2 actual connections. << that's how I judge my peers, how many actually connections did they get? Cause anyone can post 80+ missed swings.
Or shots turned black/white because it makes bad shots look better.
And they don't make money off their work and they can't upgrade their equipment, but use the "excuse"
Photographers should be able to put money they make from shots, back into their equipment.
**Granted the economy sucks in the USA right now**

I find most ringside photographers are just there cause they shoot for free, because it's a cool seat, and the promoter wouldn't pay them to shoot so they dont ask, and that's why they have the camera they have.

showing up and shooting for free, then trying to sell to fighters, is still shooting for free!
shooting for a website, (that doesn't pay you) is still shooting for free!
You know who you are!
12/15/11 11:07 AM
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SnapLocally
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Edited: 12/15/11 11:09 AM
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showing up and shooting for free, then trying to sell to fighters, is still shooting for free!
shooting for a website, (that doesn't pay you) is still shooting for free!
You know who you are! 


Yeah, me, 4 years ago.

Ever seen this shot?

That's within my first year of shooting. XTi, second hand Tamron 28-75. I didn't make a dime from the promoter. But I did clear $700 in sales from that event. It was literally a case of the equipment paying for itself.

Now as it stands, I no longer shoot on spec (or "free" as you say, though I've always been paid for my work). I'm paid 100% of the time I shoot, and I almost always make sales- sometimes exceeding my guaranteed pay- on the back end as well.

And I see the exact opposite 9/10 times, and get the "it's not the camera" line from them.
Guys in Canon Rebels showing up and shooting for free.(or promoters who hire wedding photographers....)
I see grainy images and lots of blur, and missed shots, portfolios with 80shots per bout and 2 actual connections. << that's how I judge my peers, how many actually connections did they get? Cause anyone can post 80+ missed swings.

Obviously you need competent equipment to get good shots, and I stand by my assertion that great shots can and have been made with "lesser" ie. non flagship/top of the line equipment. 

"Top of the line" 1DMKIII, 24-70L lens, taken by official Shobox photographer, the legendary Tom Casino


And this is a SnapLocally, taken with a decidedly less than professional 40D and used 3rd party lens

I'll also state that the "L" lens that took the official Showtime image is worth more than my 40D and lens COMBINED. 

And they don't make money off their work and they can't upgrade their equipment, but use the "excuse"
Photographers should be able to put money they make from shots, back into their equipment.


Photographers that can make the most with what they have don't make excuses. Now that being said, I started with the Canon XTi, made plenty of money with it, went up to the 40D a year later when I could justify the cost, and 2 years later went up to the 7D because I wanted a second body. So as it stands, not only do I not own a "top of the line" camera, my best camera isn't even as "good" as your second tier camera. Now maybe you don't mind your camera taking the credit for your shots, but I'll always take credit for mine. And I'll confidently stand by my original assertion:

It's not the camera, it's the photographer, your definition of "artsy" notwithstanding. 
1/12/12 3:09 PM
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Sportmaster
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The new ultimate mma camera, Nikon D4.
1/23/12 2:30 PM
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CombatCaptured
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Edited: 02/09/12 6:32 PM
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Sportmaster - The new ultimate mma camera, Nikon D4.

 As long as the battery shoots more then the 2600 it's rated at, it's supposed to shoot more then the D3s when shooting bursts, and that the 2600 is from a new test method, but I'd hate to change batteries even if it doesn't seem like a big deal.

Better autofocus, white ballance, ISO and the extra mp for crops sounds great though!!

SnapLocally:

EDITED


 
1/23/12 2:39 PM
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CombatCaptured
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 It's sad because I see some very creative and talented and artistic photographers that could be making a killing outside of "sports" photography. And yes doing what you love is great and good for the soul, but at least admit it's just a hobby then..

I truely am jealous of those photograhers and would give up my D3s in a heartbeat for that kind of skill.

And if you have a lower end dSLR don't be discouraged, please show up and see what you can do, maybe you'll be able to make a career out of it, or at the very least be a part of an amazing community!
1/24/12 1:33 PM
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Sportmaster
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Nikon interview: CIPA tests hide the D4’s improved battery life

DE: The D4 battery has lower capacity. We understand that was because of a Japanese regulation. One question about that is, is that a limitation on strictly milliampere hours, or is it on total power, combination of voltage and milliamp?

DE: We're trying to figure out how Canon got away with 2,450 milliamps in the 1D X.

TA: The reason we changed the battery is because of the Japanese standard, we have to change it to keep to the Japanese standard. Tested to the CIPA standard, this model can take about 2,600 pictures, a slight decrease compared with the D3S battery. But in the case of a professional photographer shooting continuously, this battery can take more pictures than the D3S.

DE: So you're saying that for an actual, professional photographer, burst shooting, the D4 will take more pictures than the D3S?

TA: Yes.

LS: Dave also said that he noticed that Canon's 1D X battery was 2,450 milliamp. How was Canon able to come up with a battery with a higher milliamp?

YN: The character of the battery is different as compared with Canon's new battery. This one is much more powerful than our old battery, so we created this battery in order to have the best performance with this one, or other old model. When you make a burst shutter, it requires much more power... but based on the old battery, sometimes performance is not good. When you use this one, it's much better performance.

DE: So it can deliver more current in bursts than the old battery?

YN: When the temperature is cold, the performance of the D3S battery is not stable. But the new Nikon D4 battery is much more stable. That is another unique point for the new battery.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/01/18/nikon-interview-cipa-tests-hide-the-d4s-improved-battery-life

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