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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> 3Bet with AA size?


11/23/10 11:33 AM
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andre
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Midway through the field yesterday in a $109 buy in tourney on FT, I pick up AA on the button. There was one raise from EP to 240 (blinds were 50/100), and one caller in MP. It gets to me and I raised it to 779.

MP called. QJ on the flop. He bets, I raise, he shoves, I call (though I thought he might have two pair -QJ). He turns over KT for the open ended straight draw. Of course there is a 9 on the turn and I'm out.

I got what I wanted preflop, which was one caller, and I was way ahead once we were all in, but I think I should have made it 900+ to go.

What say you?

Thanks!
11/23/10 11:34 AM
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andre
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as far as stack sizes, we were both sitting on about 59BBs.
11/23/10 2:53 PM
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JHR
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 MP called a bet 8 times the BB preflop...I would assume he would call one 9 or 10 times.

Sounds like the guy was intent on seeing a flop no matter the cost to try and get lucky on you, and unfortunately he did.

Shit happens.

You got your money in good.

That guy is going to pay you off numerous times down the road if he's always that reckless.

Question, what was the prior history between you two like at the table? Were you nailing his blinds alot or battling in alot of hands with him?





11/23/10 3:49 PM
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andre
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I had just gotten moved to the table, so we didnt really have any history. Sucks because doubling up at that point would have put me in the top 15. :(

Thanks for the input, man!
11/23/10 5:12 PM
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PR
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779 is a solid reraise amount IP with those stacks AGAINST ONE RAISER.

It's a little small once someone calls the initial raise though.

The reason boils down to the fundamental theorem of poker (from Theory of Poker) - paraphrasing - if someone makes a decisions that is different from the one he would have made IF HE COULD SEE YOUR CARDS - you gain - but if he makes the same decision that he would if he could see your cards - he gains. Basically you want the guy to make mistakes.

It comes down to implied odds for the opponent. When he is trying to decide whether or not to call your reraise, he's weighing the implied odds (the payoff) for investing the 539 chips he needs to risk to see the flop.

For example, if you made the minimum reraise to 380, he's correct to basically call your reraise with any two cards. If you instead reraised all-in, then the correct play is to fold almost everything (except AA, probably KK/QQ).

But the thing is that he's ALREADY called a preflop raise, so his hand is likely decent. Most people reraise AA, KK, QQ, AK - so his hand likely isnt premium.
11/23/10 5:16 PM
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PR
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I have more to say, the above is like only the start. :)

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 86.245% 86.06% 00.19% 106094016 233712.00 { AA }
Hand 1: 13.755% 13.57% 00.19% 16724448 233712.00 { KTo }

Just to ballpark, KT is 13.5% vs. your AA. This means roughly KT wins 1 in 6 times agaisnt AA (if he sees all 5 cards).

When you reraise and it comes around to him he has to call 539 chips to win 50+100+240+240+779=1409 chips. That is pot odds of only 2.61 to 1 odds.

This is a very simplistic analysis, but we can see that clearly he isnt getting immediate odds to continue.

But this is where implied odds come in.
11/23/10 6:18 PM
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wreckker
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I would of raised a lil more...

when u three bet small it says two things usually..

you want the call because you have premium hand

you just making a play in position to take cheap iniative after flop


Because he is early position raiser you have a good chance to get 4 bet i think with a slightly bigger pre flop raise.

small 3 bet can set off alarm bells because its obvious you are going to get called ...so your opponet knows you are giving up preflop fold equity.









11/23/10 6:36 PM
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PR
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Yeah, EP is your real target, not the MP caller. You are making it too easy for EP to just call.
11/24/10 2:53 AM
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andre
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PR, excellent posts. Thank you very much.

Wreckker, thanks, man! I think I got everything I wanted (luckily), except for the way the board ran out. But I should have made it 1000-1200, I guess.

Thanks Phydeau. :) That was a helpful way to look at it.

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