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Australasia UnderGround >> Pan Pacs results?


11/28/10 6:20 PM
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PeterIrl
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Anyone from PDB know when they'll have the results up on the website?
11/29/10 5:08 AM
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DIMA
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When they finish counting there $$$ Phone Post
11/29/10 5:24 PM
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PeterIrl
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LOL.

Seriously though, anyone know?
11/29/10 9:04 PM
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Cuts
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I got gold in ;

Purple Belt Adults 97kg GI
Purple Belt Adults Absolute GI
Purple Belt Adults Absolute NoGI
11/30/10 5:59 AM
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walbjj
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afbjj have results up. but infinitemma have a more active forum
12/2/10 9:33 PM
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DMMA
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Hey guys, just though you should know that there was an administration error in the results of the male adult teams results at the Pan Pacs.

I have written to Peter de Been to get it corrected. Here's the email:

Hi Peter,

I would like to bring to your attention an administrational oversight that has been made with the male adult team
results at the 2010 Pan Pacific titles.

It appears that a number of Will/Machado academies ( 4 ) have been listed as separate teams on the results.
I have spoken to each head coach of these academies (and included them in this email) and they were unaware of this situation.
Each coach has stated that they wish to be included under the Will/Machado banner as this is the team they represent when competing
and always have. This includes all of the past Pan Pacs.

The academies that were not included in the John Will Machado Team are:

Hybrid Training centre 71 points

Bendigo BJJ 22 point

Fighting Arts Fitness Centre 21 points

Sinosic/Perosh Martial Arts 18 points

Taking into consideration that the points accumulated by these academies should be included under the John Will Machado Jiu Jitsu
team, that would give the John Will Machado team a total of 350 points.

That being the case, it would appear that the John Will Machado team actually won first place.

If you could see to it that this error is corrected, it would very much appreciated. I will try and track down the Will/Machado representative
who received the 2nd place trophy and have it returned. If you could let me know when I can pick up the 1st place trophy, I will be sure
to make myself available.

This an open letter and out of public interest I have posted it on a number of BJJ forums. It is important that all competitors know that
this situation has arisen and that you will do your utmost to correct this situation.

Sincerely,

Cam Rowe
12/2/10 11:52 PM
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moles
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Hey Cam

There was a mistake with one of the results in Male masters purple belt. Dion Perkins actually got 1st not 2nd as listed. Also Ivan Rakitic's Team Weapon is a Pete affiliate and got 12 points.

Either way it looks like its very close.
12/3/10 12:22 AM
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PeterIrl
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DMMA - Hey guys, just though you should know that there was an administration error in the results of the male adult teams results at the Pan Pacs.

I have written to Peter de Been to get it corrected. Here's the email:

Hi Peter,

I would like to bring to your attention an administrational oversight that has been made with the male adult team
results at the 2010 Pan Pacific titles.

It appears that a number of Will/Machado academies ( 4 ) have been listed as separate teams on the results.
I have spoken to each head coach of these academies (and included them in this email) and they were unaware of this situation.
Each coach has stated that they wish to be included under the Will/Machado banner as this is the team they represent when competing
and always have. This includes all of the past Pan Pacs.

The academies that were not included in the John Will Machado Team are:

Hybrid Training centre 71 points

Bendigo BJJ 22 point

Fighting Arts Fitness Centre 21 points

Sinosic/Perosh Martial Arts 18 points

Taking into consideration that the points accumulated by these academies should be included under the John Will Machado Jiu Jitsu
team, that would give the John Will Machado team a total of 350 points.

That being the case, it would appear that the John Will Machado team actually won first place.

If you could see to it that this error is corrected, it would very much appreciated. I will try and track down the Will/Machado representative
who received the 2nd place trophy and have it returned. If you could let me know when I can pick up the 1st place trophy, I will be sure
to make myself available.

This an open letter and out of public interest I have posted it on a number of BJJ forums. It is important that all competitors know that
this situation has arisen and that you will do your utmost to correct this situation.

Sincerely,

Cam Rowe


Nicely done!
12/5/10 5:46 AM
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kustom
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cam have u received a reply yet?
12/5/10 10:47 PM
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moles
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kustom - cam have u received a reply yet?

Taken from infinitemma.com

The response:

Hi Cam
The computer only does what it is told - certainly there can be no administration oversight with registrations here. This is why the online registration is so good, we actually are not in control of what registration details are supplied. Anyone who is a paid up Affiliate in their own name has a right to go down as one and be represented in the drop down box at registration. Who are we to say that we cannot accept a registration for a particular team when they pay their affiliation like everyone else?
I personally grade instructors from other Affiliate teams, however they also wish to be known as their own Affiliate. Ivan Rakitic is just one. If a team wishes to have it’s own identity then we must allow that.

After all the registrations are received the computer program then creates all the categories and heat sheets according to the Affiliate structures. The Affiliate structures are an important ingredient in how the competition plan is generated.

To change the original input details, after a rally of teams, post competition is ludicrous! It’s akin to after an Olympics to try to alter the final medal tally by garnishing support from friendly countries and have two or three countries joining their medal tally after initially nominating as individual countries!

I would suggest to any team in a situation such as yours that if they wish to have points added from different academies which are businesses with different names, they should cancel each Affiliate membership and advise each business that they shall not be represented under their own name but rather under the group name. The AFBJJ does not care which academy a competitor nominates, so long as it is a paid up Affiliate Member.

Overall we had just 6 individual results that were collated incorrectly - these errors are what you would call “administration oversights”. They will effect the overall standings and will be corrected over the weekend.

It appears that any Administration Oversight regarding Affiliate Membership was on your side Cam!

I trust you will post this return letter on any forums that need clarification.

Thank you for your time Cam

Peter de Been
AFBJJ
12/5/10 10:48 PM
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moles
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Cam's reply to that.

Hi Peter,

I appreciate the time taken to respond. I have duly posted your reply, my reply also be posted.

Thanks for explaining the registration process. I think the problem is that since the online registration has been introduced ( a great step forward ) many students may have been unaware or perhaps even confused about which affiliate they needed to select when registering. Added to this the coaches are unaware of how students may register. Previously with the paper entry forms, coaches may have been able to check the details to ensure registration was done correctly.

Your comment that:
To change the original input details, after a rally of teams, post competition is ludicrous! It’s akin to after an Olympics to try to alter the final medal tally by garnishing support from friendly countries and have two or three countries joining their medal tally after initially nominating as individual countries!

I fail to see the link of the above comment to this situation. All the academies that I have mentioned are long term, established affiliates under the Will / Machado banner and still are. They compete under this banner and will do so in the foreseeable future. I have checked the past Pan Pac results and the only academy that appear separately out of the 4 I have mentioned is Sinosic Persosh MA, who were not aware that they were listed separately. That will be corrected for the future. This is not a newly formed alliance, rather an existing one that has been listed for one reason or another separately.

You comment further that:
I personally grade instructors from other Affiliate teams, however they also wish to be known as their own Affiliate. Ivan Rakitic is just one. If a team wishes to have it’s own identity then we must allow that.

I totally agree. I understand Ivan’s choice, and that is an issue between him and yourself. As I’ve stated previously, all coaches from the academies that I’ve mentioned were not aware that they would be classed as separate teams and do not wish to be, and we must recognise that as well. They have in the past and will in future be included under the Will Machado banner.
I can have them write to you individually stating this fact if you wish?

Also, thanks for reconciling the mistake of points allocation. I now see that both Hybrid and Bendigo BJJ have had 6 points each removed and that Peter de Been JJ has has 6 points and Douglas Santos JJ awarded. How fortunate for these teams but more so for yourself. Congratulations.

I do find your willingness to rectify the points of certain teams, but not carry out our request to be somewhat inconsistent. This action seems to fly in the face of you not wanting change inputs details etc.

Please understand that I lay no fault for this result with anyone, as with any introduction of new systems, these things happen. But I have brought to light an error and wish it (along with the 4 academies mentioned) to have it corrected.

So regardless of the result now, can we please still have the 4 teams I have mentioned grouped under the Will Machado banner to reflect the true points that we attained.

Thanks for your time.

Cam Rowe
12/5/10 10:51 PM
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moles
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Edited: 12/05/10 10:58 PM
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Cam's really starting to make himself look stupid with some of the stuff he's saying on infinitemma.com.

He still doesn't seem to realize that it was not an error that the students of those teams selected Hybrid or Sinosic/Perosh as there chosen affiliate, instead of Will-Machado. An error would be if they did selected Will-Machado but the machine registered something else.
12/5/10 11:36 PM
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PeterIrl
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I can see Cam's point but this is also why it's a good idea to let all your competing students know which association/affiliation they should choose when filling out entry forms. Our club sent out an email to everyone advising those competing exactly who they should register under.

It is a bit weird though, that the reshuffling of points can be done for one team after the fact and not another though. It's a bit contradictory.
12/6/10 2:53 AM
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DIMA
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its not really that hard to understand... have a good look who's team came first...
Of course the points "CANT" be changed...
12/6/10 5:10 AM
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tomy koia
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There is no possible way team de been could come any other place but first not even once bs.I wonder how many other times this went by unnoticed! Phone Post
12/6/10 6:46 AM
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moles
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PeterIrl - I can see Cam's point but this is also why it's a good idea to let all your competing students know which association/affiliation they should choose when filling out entry forms. Our club sent out an email to everyone advising those competing exactly who they should register under.

It is a bit weird though, that the reshuffling of points can be done for one team after the fact and not another though. It's a bit contradictory.

The 'reshuffling' of points was done due to errors. i.e. people who won gold being listed as coming second.
12/6/10 6:46 AM
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moles
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DIMA - its not really that hard to understand... have a good look who's team came first...
Of course the points "CANT" be changed...

You really are dumb aren't you.
12/6/10 6:49 AM
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moles
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tomy koia - There is no possible way team de been could come any other place but first not even once bs.I wonder how many other times this went by unnoticed!

Welcome to the forum. Are you challenging DIMA for the title of dumbest fuck on the forum?
12/6/10 6:52 AM
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moles
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The new Australian Jiu Jitsu Alliance team all managed to register under the same name despite there being options to register under Nexus, Australian Elite Team and Cherubin jiu jitsu.
12/6/10 8:17 AM
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PeterIrl
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Moles, this has been a reasonably grown up thread mate, there's no need to use pottymouth at people, or if you are going to do it you could have the common courtesy to use your real name.

I'm a big believer in not saying anything online that you wouldn't be prepared to say in person. Unless Cam knows you, in which case, work away.
12/6/10 8:44 AM
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tomy koia
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moles 1 hour ago tomy koia - There is no possible way team de been could come any other place but first not even once bs.I wonder how many other times this went by unnoticed! Welcome to the forum. Are you challenging DIMA for the title of dumbest fuck on the forum? Dude you don't handle criticism too well no need to get your nickers in a twist and get so defensive.I'm not challenging anyone for anything forums are for opinions you got yours I got mine. Phone Post
12/6/10 9:18 AM
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moles
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Edited: 12/06/10 5:28 PM
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Every time DIMA posts something on here its something negative bashing Pete, whose my coach.

Like this comment from another thread:

'Do we have to pay to referee or for the referee outfit or does the rip off end at just competing? No Gi uniforms lol what a joke... Cheap $$$ grab... Very low'

And this comment from above:

'When they finish counting there $$$'

And this comment:

'its not really that hard to understand... have a good look who's team came first... Of course the points "CANT" be changed...'

All this basically saying Pete's a piece of shit who just wants to rip people off anyway he can and ensure his team will win even if it means not being fair with the points system. You get sick of it after a while.

As for Cam, I have nothing against him, all I said is he keeps referring to the clubs like hybrid being registered separately as an error which it clearly isn't. Those clubs are paid members with the afbjj and as such their names are given among the options listed for selecting a team to represent.

Also, I'm a big believer in not having to use your real name on a forum. Thats the good thing about them, you can have your say and remain anonymous. I wouldn't expect the people who bash Pete on here to go and say it to his face.
12/6/10 9:25 AM
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moles
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Edited: 12/06/10 9:29 AM
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tomy koia - moles1 hour agotomy koia - There is no possible way team de been could come any other place but first not even once bs.I wonder how many other times this went by unnoticed!

Welcome to the forum.Are you challenging DIMA for the title of dumbest fuck on the forum?

Dude you don't handle criticism too well no need to get your nickers in a twist and get so defensive.I'm not challenging anyone for anything forums are for opinions you got yours I got mine.

I'm sorry but it just sounded like the same snide remarks DIMA makes implying Pete makes sure that his team wins even if it means fiddling with the final scores. Maybe I interpreted it wrong.
12/6/10 9:34 AM
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moles
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I'm tired. Going to bed now. bye bye.
12/6/10 5:25 PM
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PeterIrl
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moles - 

Also, I'm a big believer in not having to use your real name on a forum. Thats the beauty of them, you can vent your feelings behind a veil of secrecy. I like being able to go to tournaments and such and not having enemies or people that hate me wandering around.



Well, thats where we differ. I think that if more people were accountable for what they said there'd be a lot less BS in the world.

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