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HolyGround >> Billions going to HELL. Hell by the numbers...


12/20/10 5:25 PM
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jude099
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wat?
12/20/10 5:37 PM
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NeoSpartan
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The Persian Devil - 
jdindiana -  Do you think Satan will let us OG? Phone Post

I think he's a member here.


Ya he posts as "Kirik"
12/20/10 5:37 PM
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dangerboy12
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 The bible never mentions people staying in hell
12/20/10 6:17 PM
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ECWCock
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Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).

12/20/10 6:41 PM
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dabigchet
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Would have been a better thread with more math and less prosthelytizing. For example, you need to go back until god gave humans (or their evolutionary ancestors) souls, estimate population then, and account for ever rising growth since and into the future. This hell must be a pretty big place that this loving, merciful god created for the vast majority to suffer in for all eternity. Phone Post
12/20/10 8:50 PM
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dangerboy12
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 People don't stay in hell. Hell is consumed by the lake of fire. The lake of fire is not hell.
12/20/10 9:40 PM
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dabigchet
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dangerboy12 -  People don't stay in hell. Hell is consumed by the lake of fire. The lake of fire is not hell.


this must be quite the relief to the billions that god has already sent there. "don't worry grandma, pretty soon you will be consumed by the lake of fire!"
12/20/10 9:45 PM
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future7
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Interesting. I never thought of those numbers like that Phone Post
12/20/10 9:48 PM
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dangerboy12
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The bible is very vague when it comes to hell. Most of our ideas of hell don't come from the bible at all. The bible never even clearly says anyone other than satan and his angels go to hell. The hebrew word most often translated to hell in the bible is sheol, which either means a landfill type area or an open grave.
12/20/10 9:53 PM
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dabigchet
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approximately 110 billion people have walked the planet. so, if we are working on a 90/10 heaven hell ratio, there are currently around 100 billion souls in hell getting whats coming to them (some for 10s of thousands of years, lol at those schlubs). that number increases by approximately 700M annually, which is a pretty good clip for satan. in about 40 years, we hit 1 billion hell bound per year assuming we maintain a 90/10 ratio.

adjust those numbers up or down accordingly based on how you think the man upstairs is casting judgment nowadays.

one interesting thing is that population growth is disproportionate in asia and africa. now, thankfully the christian missionaries are making headway in africa, so some of those souls have a shot, but china and india have like 8 christians between them so i have to wonder why god is not getting the knowledge to where the people are. that seems like quite the lack of foresight. the good news is, with 100 billion+ souls in hell, they will have plenty of company!
12/20/10 10:03 PM
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dabigchet
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dangerboy12 -  Where in the bible does it say non believers go to hell? I must have missed that part.


this one seems pretty clear:

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (New International Version, ©2010)

6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
12/20/10 10:14 PM
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dangerboy12
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 well that hasn't even happened yet. Plus, still no mention of "hell."
12/20/10 10:20 PM
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dabigchet
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Edited: 12/20/10 10:28 PM
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that the word hell isn't used doesn't matter much. there is a clearly a place where you don't have access to the lord, and that's where non-believers go. maybe its all fire and pitchforks and shit, or maybe its just super boring like a non-stop QVC loop, but it is still where 100 billion are, or are en route to (assuming 90/10).

sitting around all penned up in some non-heaven staging area, waiting to be put in a lake of fire or some other punishment for their lack of belief isn't exactly going to be comforting to those 100 billion.
12/21/10 12:03 AM
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HELWIG
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 "That means all Islamic Muslims are liars,"

As opposed to non-Islamic Muslims?

Did a 4th grader write this? 
12/21/10 1:53 PM
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dabigchet
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based on population trends, hell will actually double in size by the time my kids get there, assuming they leave a full life and never get saved, which is very likely considering their godless upbringing.
12/21/10 6:36 PM
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dangerboy12
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 No one has been judged yet, and won't be until judgement day. Therefore, no one is in hell yet, or heaven for that matter.
12/21/10 9:10 PM
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dabigchet
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i have already explained, it doesn't matter if the 100 billion are merely hellbound as opposed to already hanging out in hell, all penned up like black friday wallmart shoppers waiting for the doors to open. their fate is already sealed.

also, your interpretation is far from some generally accepted christian teaching.

from where i sit, the end results it the same: the masses are pretty much doomed, 100 billion+ so far and that number will double in our kids lifetimes. that is pretty amazing if you think about it.
12/21/10 10:50 PM
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Ridgeback
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 I wonder why so many forum atheists are so focused on fundamentalists.  I guess it is like professional wrestling.
12/21/10 11:51 PM
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skibby
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'We are clearly told in Matthew 7:14 that few people ever make it to heaven!, “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, AND FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT”'

Assuming this were true, it would also be my assumption that even though I don't 'believe' in God I'll still be one of the few because I'm honest with myself and am a good person, same as any religious person who's honest with themself and is a good person.
12/22/10 12:16 AM
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Metal Andy
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my perspective:
only those who have HEARD of him and unquestioningly follow him get to go to heaven. basically your geographical location and socioeconomic status in the world plays the biggest part of deciding who goes to heaven or hell as many will never hear of the bible.

so basically we are supposed to be righteous and follow in gods footsteps, which means judge each other and punish those who disagree with you (or have never heard of you).

meanwhile satan is accepting of all people and does not discriminate.

basically if youre the nicest most caring jew in the world youre going to hell but i can 'accept jesus" and go rape a bunch of kids and itll be all good.

yeah makes sense
12/22/10 12:19 AM
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Ridgeback
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Metal Andy - my perspective:
only those who have HEARD of him and unquestioningly follow him get to go to heaven. basically your geographical location and socioeconomic status in the world plays the biggest part of deciding who goes to heaven or hell as many will never hear of the bible.

so basically we are supposed to be righteous and follow in gods footsteps, which means judge each other and punish those who disagree with you (or have never heard of you).

meanwhile satan is accepting of all people and does not discriminate.

basically if youre the nicest most caring jew in the world youre going to hell but i can 'accept jesus" and go rape a bunch of kids and itll be all good.

yeah makes sense

 This is what I am getting at.  You choose the most simplistic of extreme American fundamentalist versions of Christianity as THE representation of the faith despite it having neither the intellectual nor historical merit to be so.  This seems like a form of tipping the scales.  It is like going to a brazilian jiu jitsu school run by a low level blue belt, deciding you are not that impressed, and writing off the whole art based on that single experience.
12/22/10 12:20 AM
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winnerbyko
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FXG - When I die, fuck it I wanna go to hellCause I'm a piece of shit, it ain't hard to fuckin' tellIt don't make sense, goin' to heaven wit the goodie-goodiesDressed in white, I like black Tims and black hoodiesGod will probably have me on some real strict shitNo sleepin' all day, no gettin my dick licked <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


+1
12/22/10 12:26 AM
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Metal Andy
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Ridgeback - 
Metal Andy - my perspective:
only those who have HEARD of him and unquestioningly follow him get to go to heaven. basically your geographical location and socioeconomic status in the world plays the biggest part of deciding who goes to heaven or hell as many will never hear of the bible.

so basically we are supposed to be righteous and follow in gods footsteps, which means judge each other and punish those who disagree with you (or have never heard of you).

meanwhile satan is accepting of all people and does not discriminate.

basically if youre the nicest most caring jew in the world youre going to hell but i can 'accept jesus" and go rape a bunch of kids and itll be all good.

yeah makes sense

 This is what I am getting at.  You choose the most simplistic of extreme American fundamentalist versions of Christianity as THE representation of the faith despite it having neither the intellectual nor historical merit to be so.  This seems like a form of tipping the scales.  It is like going to a brazilian jiu jitsu school run by a low level blue belt, deciding you are not that impressed, and writing off the whole art based on that single experience.


what part did i describe that is not true of the bible? is there some other form of christianity that allows non christians into heaven?
12/22/10 12:35 AM
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Ridgeback
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Metal Andy - 
Ridgeback - 
Metal Andy - my perspective:
only those who have HEARD of him and unquestioningly follow him get to go to heaven. basically your geographical location and socioeconomic status in the world plays the biggest part of deciding who goes to heaven or hell as many will never hear of the bible.

so basically we are supposed to be righteous and follow in gods footsteps, which means judge each other and punish those who disagree with you (or have never heard of you).

meanwhile satan is accepting of all people and does not discriminate.

basically if youre the nicest most caring jew in the world youre going to hell but i can 'accept jesus" and go rape a bunch of kids and itll be all good.

yeah makes sense

 This is what I am getting at.  You choose the most simplistic of extreme American fundamentalist versions of Christianity as THE representation of the faith despite it having neither the intellectual nor historical merit to be so.  This seems like a form of tipping the scales.  It is like going to a brazilian jiu jitsu school run by a low level blue belt, deciding you are not that impressed, and writing off the whole art based on that single experience.


what part did i describe that is not true of the bible? is there some other form of christianity that allows non christians into heaven?

 Actually most Christian traditions allow for the notion that non-Christians can "get into heaven."  I should note that the Bible doesn't actually teach people "get into heaven" the way you seem to be conceiving of it.  It speaks of a general resurrection, a final judgment, and a new heavens and new earth.   So that alone is more complex than your understanding and that is a mere starting point.

As but one example, the Catechism of the Catholic Church does teach that non-Christians will be judged based on what they knew, based on the "law written on their hearts" and certainly not held accountable for their ignorance or being born in the wrong place and time.  It is not as if Christian thinkers haven't dealt with this question for 2000 years.  

As a basic datum for this discussion, I would start with this Biblical assertion in 1 Timothy 1-4:

I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
12/22/10 12:48 AM
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Metal Andy
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"who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth."

sure he wants people to follow him, who doesnt. the notion of judging people based on their beliefs over their actions is just not a good way to go about things.

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