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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> Oh. My. Bloody. Hell.


12/22/10 3:11 AM
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andre
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Full Tilt Poker Game #26604676280: $18,000 Guarantee (206308772), Table 57 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 03:08:27 ET - 2010/12/22
Seat 1: MartyPries (14,335)
Seat 2: itsnotballet (7,862)
Seat 3: juzlearnin (14,945)
Seat 4: monsterwong (5,434)
Seat 5: ScottyWhen333 (7,580)
Seat 6: AcesProfit (5,670)
Seat 7: bigjuicy1 (5,505)
Seat 8: J B Schools (2,810)
Seat 9: Phingroov72 (1,709)
itsnotballet posts the small blind of 100
juzlearnin posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to itsnotballet [Ks Kd]
monsterwong has 15 seconds left to act
monsterwong folds
ScottyWhen333 folds
AcesProfit folds
bigjuicy1 folds
J B Schools folds
Phingroov72 has 15 seconds left to act
Phingroov72 folds
MartyPries folds
itsnotballet calls 100
juzlearnin checks
*** FLOP *** [Kc Js 6d]
itsnotballet checks
juzlearnin bets 200
itsnotballet calls 200
*** TURN *** [Kc Js 6d] [4c]
itsnotballet checks
juzlearnin bets 600
itsnotballet calls 600
*** RIVER *** [Kc Js 6d 4c] [5h]
itsnotballet checks
juzlearnin bets 1,700
itsnotballet raises to 6,862, and is all in
juzlearnin calls 5,162
*** SHOW DOWN ***
itsnotballet shows [Ks Kd] three of a kind, Kings
juzlearnin shows [7d 3s] a straight, Seven high
juzlearnin wins the pot (15,724) with a straight, Seven high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15,724 | Rake 0
Board: [Kc Js 6d 4c 5h]
Seat 1: MartyPries (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: itsnotballet (small blind) showed [Ks Kd] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 3: juzlearnin (big blind) showed [7d 3s] and won (15,724) with a straight, Seven high
Seat 4: monsterwong didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: ScottyWhen333 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: AcesProfit didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: bigjuicy1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: J B Schools didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Phingroov72 didn't bet (folded)
12/22/10 5:03 AM
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andre
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LOL

Finally you have an
Awesome post.
12/22/10 5:40 AM
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PR
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God andre you hurt my brain man. :)
12/22/10 2:20 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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I was convinced on the OG you were trolling, you really think you played this well?
12/22/10 3:08 PM
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andre
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Spuds Buckley  - I was convinced on the OG you were trolling, you really think you played this well?


LOL...of course I did. Do you feel that every time someone loses a hand they made a mistake?
12/22/10 4:27 PM
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wreckker
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 i very rarely play the hand the way you did..
only a against a super agressive player who will lead all the way


check raise the turn yo!!!!









12/22/10 4:35 PM
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andre
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wreckker,

If you have a chance, can you take a look at the thread on this on the OG? It has the backstory, including my read on the player based on previous hands.

Also, are you opposed to limping from the SB with KK?
12/22/10 4:37 PM
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andre
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"only a against a super agressive player who will lead all the way "

Which is exactly what he did, and exactly why I let him do the betting, without check raising him. I dont want him to fold...I want him to keep betting. If I check raise the turn, it is purely for value, which I didnt think I would get if I did so. Or do you think I should have wanted him to fold on the turn?
12/22/10 5:05 PM
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wreckker
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 I am not opposed to limping with kk in sb in mnay spots ...

usually when blinds are bigger and im enticing a raise


because ur stacks are big i would raise to build a pot many times u will get reraised too
with marginal holdings because they dont give u credit


I would check raise the turn vast majority of times because there are too many draws on that board

also with a preflop rasie you could of gotten all money in turn easier
 pot is too small on turn for him to commit with a k or draw

bigger pot  pre can trap him later











hindsight u got him to do exactly what u want with is holdings


if board was less coordinated then checking turn against a super agressive player is more acceptable





12/23/10 4:22 AM
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andre
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Chewy, of course I didn't know what his read of me was. In fact, I don't know that he was rhyming that far into it. But when you play a hand, you have to not only consider your opponent's tendencies, but you also have to try to understand how he might are yours. It isn't just about what you have or what he has, but what he thinks you have as well. Or do you disagree with that?

And yes, I always try to explain my reasons and sometimes I am too stubborn. And sometimes I am explaining something that might not have been apparent by the hand history alone. I'm far from perfect.
12/23/10 11:18 AM
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andre
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TitoOrtiz5 - You got beat by a way superior player. Juzlearnin is an extremely solid player. Look him up sometime.



Man, I swear I looked him up on Sharkscope and through google and nothing came up. I just checked again after reading your post and I see that he's a solid player. That really would have affected my play if I had known that. Thanks.

But come on...he didnt do anything in this hand that was "superior". If anything, he was putting money into the pot when he was drawing nearly dead and most players would have realized that my limp and call was strong, not weak, so his bet on the turn probably should have been a check, imo.
12/23/10 3:00 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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andre - 
Spuds Buckley  - I was convinced on the OG you were trolling, you really think you played this well?


LOL...of course I did. Do you feel that every time someone loses a hand they made a mistake?



Of course not. But I think limping and creating an SPR of about about 15 OOP with KK is wrong 99.99% of the time. If you raise pre, hell even do a min raise and you will look just as weak and look like you are trying to cheap steal, you get a much more favorable SPR of about 8 or 9.

OOP I just hate this play, that's all.

I didn't read the entire OG thread, too many knuckleheads, but I think you were calling this opponent fish/donk etc weren't you? WHy? He never had a chance to fold his hand! He tried to steal with tiny bets on the flop and turn and you only called. Then he got lucky on the river and of course he jammed. In his shoes, what else could he have done.


Caveat, I play cash 99% of the time, so maybe my thougths are off. I know you do well on tourneys andre, I am not talking shit, just my opinion.
12/23/10 3:07 PM
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andre
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Spuds,

I dont think he's a fish for the way he played this hand, although I think the bet on the turn was a bit of a spew since most players would read my check pre and my check on the flop as strong rather than weak and he isnt really drawing to anything he can showdown if he needs to on the river.

But let me make something clear here that I hopefully made clear on the other thread: I dont remember the last time I limped with KK or AA from any position, even the small or BB. Actually, I have to take that back if I consider SnG's where I've limped against a short stack from the SB knowing he has to shove anyway because he's under 10 BBs and the turbo SnGs call for a shove in that spot with any two, but I'd never do it in cash and very, very rarely would do it in a tournament (if I had to estimate it would be less than 5% of the time), but I did it here because I thought I had a very specific read.

That was really my mistake: thinking I could have a read THAT specific.

I'm sure through poker tracker I can run a report that would show how I tend to play my big pairs from each position. I know I checked what my win rate was with AA and KK and I was at around 82-86% with each, which is right where you'd expect it to be statistically if I'm playing them correctly.
12/23/10 3:42 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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andre, if there is any further disagreement, I suggest we fight to the death.

I too am a BJJ BB (no, not big blind)

First one to die, loses.


LOL this one hand analysis is out of control, good luck at the tables man
12/23/10 4:39 PM
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andre
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Thanks, Spuds! You too!

Do you teach? What team/instructor are you from? Have we met?
12/23/10 5:12 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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I'm with Ralph Gracie. I train at his Dublin school. I don't teach, teaching is not something I'm good at plus we got some great instructors there Phone Post
12/23/10 5:36 PM
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andre
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I dont want to roll with you if you're from Ralph's. I havent seen a guy from Ralph's who wasnt insanely good.
12/23/10 8:34 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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Unfortunately, just like limping Kings, I think I am the exception to the rule
12/25/10 3:10 PM
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joe canada
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What, now you've deleted the thread which explained why you deleted the thread?

It's like a mirror in front of a mirror -- where does it end????


Merry Christmas anyway!
12/26/10 2:32 AM
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andre
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joe canada - What, now you've deleted the thread which explained why you deleted the thread?

It's like a mirror in front of a mirror -- where does it end????


Merry Christmas anyway!


I didnt!!
12/28/10 11:33 PM
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joe canada
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my bad, ran across it later.

I stand by my Merry Christmas though!

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