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Weapons UnderGround >> home defense ammo for remington 870


12/28/10 10:55 AM
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simthefarmer
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i have a remington 870 super magnum. What would be my best choice for home defense ammo? (i'm in canada if it changes something)
12/28/10 5:39 PM
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Skpotamus
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I keep my shotgun loaded with 2 3/4" 00 buck. Federal has patterned in my gun reliably out to 25 yards with pretty nasty effect.
12/30/10 12:01 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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This depends on many things. Each person will have to decide for themselves BUT...

1. If you live in an apartment setting you may want to consider birdshot. I will "probably" not penetrate the wall and injure or kill unintended targets. Having to pass through 5/8 drywall, insulation, studs, wiring and possibly plumbing is a tall order for birdshot. BUT, it can tear into a jean jacket and into human tissue nicely. In my FIRE POWER DVD we do tests on the range with Buckshot, Birdshot and Slugs for the reason of determining what would be tactically appropriate for a domestic or urban environment.

2. If you are in a typical neighborhood home proximity of neighbors is still an issue and Buckshot "can" be used. Understand you have nine .33 caliber pellets coming out the end of your weapon and you're responsible for all nine of them.

3. Slugs are a devastating anti personel load and turn a shotgun into a short range rifle (accurate out to 100 yards). I would caution people in domestic or urban environments that is can penetrate drywall, wood, plaster etc. quite easily. Slugs can also exit a human body and continue through drywall etc.

A shotgun is a great weapon. It is not the first choice for home defense for a number of reasons.

*You answer the door in the middle of the night with a handgun and a flashlight.
*You move through hallways and doorways (to extricate children or secure entrances) with a handgun and flashlight.

You get everybody into one room, call for help and guard the door with a shotgun.

HANDGUN = Infantry (mobile, flexible and lightweight)

SHOTGUN = Artillery. Powerful but not as flexible.

THERE IS A LOT MORE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION THAN AMMO SELECTION but is does have it's place.

Demi
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1/1/11 2:03 PM
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simthefarmer
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i am actually in an appartement building in an urban setting. We can't really have handgun legally here actually.
1/2/11 8:40 PM
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Skpotamus
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I wouldn't load it up with birdshot personally, the penetration ability of birdshot sizes is not adequate to reach vital organs at contact distances. If you are concerned about wall penetration issues, I would look at the reduced recoil (means reduced power) loads from the popular manufacturers as well as mapping out the apartment setup and determining my "safe" shot angles so if I miss the pellets don't over penetrate into something important. As always YMMV.

Below is a link to another forum where they tested various loads of birdshot into bare ordinance gelatin (no cloth in front of it). The various loads are shown in the gelatin to show the wound cavities and penetration as well as their recommendations. Use the data to help form your own conclusions.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109958&sid=536e425bdc5d6898ce68db2d638cefec

Below, a link to a wall penetration tests using shotguns: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14_4.htm - this one includes penetration tests of bird shot on dry wall. Note that even the bird shot penetrated the first wall setup completely. Meaning a miss with birdshot will still go through a wall and can potentially hit something you don't want to.

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176 for more shotgun ballistics info.
1/2/11 9:25 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Birdshot is not the "preferred" load for defense. It does have to be given proper consideration.

Sometimes people ask about it's ability to penetrate a leather jacket etc...

We tested it on the range on flannel.

I came to appreciate that if someone unloaded on me with birdshot I could be wounded severely and even killed.

It's just something to consider in the totality of the circumstances.
1/2/11 10:23 PM
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SidRon
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The primary objective should be using ammunition that will quickly kill the target you are shooting at. Once you have identified a subset of ammunition that accomplishes the first objective then feel free to choose one of the subset that reduces the chance of collateral damage to others.
1/3/11 4:22 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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I hear ya RonSid BUT...

I would say "stop the threat" not kill.

I say killing is incidental if not accidental. We shoot to "stay alive". So your logic stand up but I'd say "ammo that will stop the threat".

Demi
www.DemiBarbito.com
1/4/11 4:51 PM
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SidRon
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Demitrius Barbito - I hear ya RonSid BUT...

I would say "stop the threat" not kill.

I say killing is incidental if not accidental. We shoot to "stay alive". So your logic stand up but I'd say "ammo that will stop the threat".

Demi
www.DemiBarbito.com


Agreed, "Incapacitate" would have been a better word choice.

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