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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> Rakeback thread?


1/7/11 5:28 AM
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ATLien420
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 i'd like some general rakeback info such as:

-which sites offer the best deals?
-which site should i sign up through?
-can someone get a referal for me?

also to the serious players here, what HUD do you use? PT3 vs HEM?



any help appreciated..
1/7/11 3:24 PM
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stillmatic
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You can find a few sites that have low traffic that will offer higher rakeback, sometimes up to 100%, but game selection sucks for those and probably isn't all that worthwhile unless you're a very strong short-handed player. Onlinepropping.com has a few options as far as that goes.

Fulltilt Poker is probably your best bet for rakeback. You get 27% and can sign up through various affiliates to get that deal. Just sign up with a reputable site, I'm with Rakebackpros.com and haven't had any problems getting payment.

I'm way behind the times when it comes to Poker software as I'm still using PT2 and I have PokerAce HUD, but never use it. Just about everyone is using HEM these days and it's supposedly superior to PT3.

1/9/11 2:54 PM
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cadeswallows
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there is a thread on rb that may help about half way down the page.

for casual player ft rb is best.

i use pt3 and havent used HEM but there both good, pros and cons of both.
1/25/11 3:46 AM
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ATLien420
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 hey guys just got my rakeback approval on fulltilt yesterday through rakebackpros....just had a loooooong night but thanks for the help...also downloaded the trial of PT3 and used it all day, think i'll use it for a week or so and try HEM
1/26/11 5:46 PM
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cadeswallows
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whatchutalinboutwillis?

did u get rakeback on an existing account? cuz ive tried half a dozen times and i always get denied??

i would def play at tilt, if i could get rb there. the games are softer and theres no rathole short stackers, theres no 20-50 big blind tables and they appeal to the guy that thinks he can be the next durrrr.
1/26/11 10:12 PM
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ATLien420
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 i actually got approved for rakeback on my account through rakebackpros, and for my brother through pocketfives...

and yes, they are both existing accounts, and i was approved and up and running within just a couple days

i just followed the instructions on the above websites, then sent a short email to fulltilt letting them know of my intentions....i fudged the truth a lil about how many hands i play on other sites, and that i'd love to be able to play rush w rakeback, blah blah blah....then bam..im in business
1/27/11 12:42 AM
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cadeswallows
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thx, i shall try again...
1/27/11 2:36 AM
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ATLien420
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 another friend just got his approval today using the above method on full tilt through rakebackpros
2/11/11 9:34 PM
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Jay Sin
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I'm always playing those damn Steps tournies, so I was checking out how many tickets I had when I noticed ~$20 extra in my account... I check the history, and sure enough Rakebackpros have issued me $35 in two transactions over the past week! I didn't realize I had submitted my account for approval although I did fill out with the form with my info. on their site.

Holy fu*k this is sweet. If I had done this a year ago, I'd probably be up some dough, haha. No joke rakebackpros worked.

Anyone playing any FTOPs events? The $10K shootout is tomorrow and I see Hansen is already registered. I was psyched for event #1 ($200+$16 superstack), and used two of my $75 tickets to try and satellite in and epically failed :(

2/16/11 10:57 PM
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ATLien420
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(LONGEST FRAT IN HISTORY)   

 Man, the last few weeks have been very humbling and inspiring. 

I've been playing poker pretty seriously for the past 6 years or so.  Since 06, almost 100% of my income has come from poker related work.(dealing, running a game, or playing)  I lived in Vegas in 08, and dealt poker at a casino on the strip.  I played ALOT of live poker that year.  Most of it was small, like the daily noon $150 at the Venetian, and i played over 1500 hours of cash games (prally 30% 2/5, 70% 5/ 10 NL).  I finished that year up about 60k and was sure i had what it took to make it!!

A kid i worked(and played a ton of poker with) with won a bracelet in the employee event that year, he also got 10th in the same event this year.  Anyway, most of the time i'd try to get him to come out and grind w/ me, he'd almost always say that he had to go home to grind on the internet.  I remember thinkin how fuckin dumb that was, here's this young 22 year old kid with at least 100k and a decent job, yet he'd pass up all the action i've been killing on the strip just to go sit in his room and play on the internet.  Hell, i coulda stayed in GA to do that.  Well when i finally went to his house, what i saw was amazing.  In hindsight, I couldnt fully appreciate what i was seeing, because i had no clue what was going on.  He had 2 huge flat screeens w/ too many 200 nl tables to count going, on several different sights.  I knew then that the internet was a whole different ballgame, and it explained alot of why i seemed to avg around 30k/ year just playing the underground live circuit and GA mixed w a couple casino trips, yet i could barely keep my head above water playin on the internet.  I was literally bringing a toy knife to a gun fight.

Fast Fwd to this week....

I finally vowed to break my addiction to the bigger MTT's that are crushing every little bankroll i deposit online.  A kid i know has been getting staked/ coached by a what i consider to be very successful online pro.  He showed me the little system he uses to make about $30/ hr + rakeback.  Even better, a computer ignorant old fella like me can easily use it.

So, i've just completed my first 24 hours or so( i know, SUPER small sample size, but stop bursting my bubble) and here are the results:

$5 6 handed super turbo-  78 played,  ROI 11.4,  ITM 39.7, profit $47.10 ,  $/hr- $19.49
$10 6 handed super turbo- 160 played,  ROI 20.1, ITM 40,  profit $337.35,  $/ hr 63.65

I bought HEM (after trying both pt3 and hem) and use tableninja to multitable...the tableninja is what has got me so motivated though, it's truly amazing how easy it is to use.  My dad was 8 tabling today!!!

I only took the time to write this, my longest post in internet history, to share the experience of somebody who thought they knew alot about this game.  Humble pie is somehow the most refreshing dessert i've EVER tasted.  My game has gone to garbage the last couple years, as i've adjusted my game to suit ONLY the local game i play every week.  I've got alot to learn and i'm more motivated than ever.

I swear the best part is, i havent been able to get on tilt in 2 days!  the main reason is, i now have so much goin on that every SNG, much less every hand is meaningless.  Hell, i usually dont even know what happens after i shove until later when i'm reviewing my HH's
2/17/11 1:42 AM
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PR
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Too bad you didnt discover that in 2006 :(
2/17/11 2:28 AM
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andre
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I think that online MTTs are practically impossible to live off of without a bankroll the size of the federal deficit.
2/17/11 3:24 AM
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PR
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andre - I think that online MTTs are practically impossible to live off of without a bankroll the size of the federal deficit.



Its a long time between big scores
2/17/11 4:09 AM
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andre
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PR, I busted out with an interesting hand recently at the LAPC.

I was down to about 12BBs, 23 people left and 9 spots paid, when I picked up aces in late position. UTG was a really good, young player who had won the previous day's tournament. He was down to between 10 and 12 BBs as well. I see QQ with only 12 BBs and I'm thinking this is an easy shove. But UTG makes a raise that is slightly bigger than a min-raise. My spidey sense started tingling because he was definitely good enough, and young enough, to know to shove a hand like AK, TT-QQ, and maybe AQ from that position. But making a small raise from that position reeked of wanting action.

What say you? Shove or fold? I know calling is out of the question. His raise was about 3 BBs.
2/17/11 8:21 PM
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VectorWega
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 He had aces obv.  Fold 11 out of 10 times in that spot.
2/17/11 8:29 PM
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andre
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VectorWega -  He had aces obv.  Fold 11 out of 10 times in that spot.


Can you please give me a serious answer on this one? Come on, man.
2/17/11 8:41 PM
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VectorWega
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 Did I make the right read?
2/17/11 8:49 PM
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Spuds Buckley
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andre - 
I was down to about 12BBs, 23 people left and 9 spots paid, when I picked up aces in late position........... I see QQ with only 12 BBs and I'm thinking this is an easy shove.

What say you? Shove or fold? I know calling is out of the question. His raise was about 3 BBs.


Confused, you had aces or queens ???
2/17/11 11:16 PM
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VectorWega
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Spuds Buckley  - 
andre - 
I was down to about 12BBs, 23 people left and 9 spots paid, when I picked up aces in late position........... I see QQ with only 12 BBs and I'm thinking this is an easy shove.

What say you? Shove or fold? I know calling is out of the question. His raise was about 3 BBs.


Confused, you had aces or queens ???

 He had aces and queens.  Opponent just had a pair of kings and hit a king on the flop.  Texas Hold'em can be a cruel game.
2/18/11 1:31 AM
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andre
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I had queens. I was suspicious because I think he would shove strong hands from that position and only try to induce action with a monster.

Do I have to shove queens anyway (I did) because Im down to 12 BBs, or would you lay it down?
2/18/11 1:32 AM
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andre
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Vector,

Is there a reason we cant talk about hands a bit seriously? Or is it just with me that we cant? Im fine going elsewhere to discuss this stuff.
2/18/11 3:10 AM
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PR
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NOTE: I AM ASSUMING SINCE THERE WERE ONLY 23 PLAYERS LEFT THAT YOU ENTERED THE PORTION OF THE TOURNEY THAT HAD ANTES INVOLVED.

No, you never ever do anything but shove QQ there with 12bb.

I know what you are getting at, and I like that you've identified the tendency for good players to shove weaker hands, but make a normal raise with stronger hands when in that range of 7-15bb stack size.

However, QQ is typically too strong so you just ignore that feeling and just shove it anyway. This is because you usually dont have a strong enough read to know that he has a range of {AA, KK, QQ} because we need to realize the fact that even if hes a guy that might shove worse and make a normal raise with better, that he also needs to consider other factors like the tourney structure, the money and the other 7-8 opponents at the table and thus maybe be making the play that he makes for other reasons that dont involve us.

So we shove 100% of the time.


Once you get to TT, 99, 88, AQ, AJ (somewhere there), only *THEN* can you *MAYBE* consider folding those hands to his normal sized raise.

You gotta accept the fact that in tournies you often are so smaller stacked that you actual poker goes out the window and you simply make a play based 100% on the mathematics of the situation.
2/18/11 8:57 AM
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VectorWega
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andre - Vector,

Is there a reason we cant talk about hands a bit seriously? Or is it just with me that we cant? Im fine going elsewhere to discuss this stuff.

Well, it was a no-brainer question.  You shove with QQ 100% of the time unless he shows you 2 aces or 2 kings before your decision.  In this case he had aces obv, so you gotta fold even 5 BBs.
2/18/11 11:12 AM
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andre
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PR, thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it.

I did shove and he did turn over KK. I probably would shove again in the same situation, but based on his profile and the unusualness of his play, I would be doing so against a very strong "read." had he limped, I wouldn't have felt nearly as convinced that he had a monster. I would have added pocket pairs under tens hoping to see a flop for cheap but willing to call a shove by someone in late position. But for him to commit 30% of his stack from UTG made it seem like he was begging for action.

At 15+ BBs I would have gone with my "read" and folded. Maybe that's a bad play but I think that there is an aspect to winning that involves making big, unconventional calls, shoves, and laydowns.
2/18/11 2:13 PM
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andre
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Let me clarify my last statement:

What I mean is that the thing that will separate a great player from a decent one will not be the perfect command of mathematics. I'm not downplaying the role of math in the game, and it is an area that I'm trying to improve because I know it is the foundation of the game. What I'm saying is that what separates skilled from unskilled players is the ability to detect traps, know when they're likely to be ahead and when they're likely to be way behind. Stack size changes that to some extent, perhaps a great extent, but it doesnt eliminate it. If there is a player who I know to be extremely capable making a play that a capable player would only make with two hands, then I think it is right to lay down QQ even if Im UNDER ten BBs. Of course, we can never be so sure so perhaps saying that we will shove QQ with 10-15BBs 100% of the time is a safe blanket rule, but I think there is a case to be made for NOT becoming too automatic, even when you're shortstacked. That is my beef with some of Tony Dunst's (Bond18) advice. It is important to know as a guideline but it isn't an absolute in the way he presents it.

If everyone is following a shove chart then the game really does come down to the cards and the moment we find a bot we can get away with, we should all walk away from the game and let the bot make the proper mathematical decision. We'll show a profit in the long run (assuming we have the bankroll for it), but it won't be exceptional tournament poker, imo.

And before anyone intentionally misunderstands: I am not claiming to know what exceptional tournament poker is...I just know that it's not ALL math.

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