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NFLGround >> Brady has NO ONE!


1/12/11 8:13 PM
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thePetester
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I am so tired of all these New England DORKS! Last time I checked he had:

a receiver who had 4 straight 100 reception seasons
a super bowl MVP
2 good pass catching tight ends
a rb that ran for 12 touchdowns
an offensive line so good that one of its starters only played half a season and is still starting in the pro bowl and another alternate.

Not to mention one of the best talent evaluators and coaches (questionable actions not withstanding) of the past 25 years.

I have come to the realization I don't hate the patriots, I hate the fans.
1/13/11 2:17 AM
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deus ex machina
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Boston fans are some of the most abrasive out there.
1/13/11 8:40 AM
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NeckCranks
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I'm from Mass. I'm a huge Sox fan but I hate the Pats. I'm so sick of hearing how Brady is the greatest ever. I hope the Jets/Ravens/Steelers/Falcons/GB beat them. I'll root for whoever plays against them.
1/13/11 9:07 AM
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supersaiyan
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1/13/11 10:45 AM
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Nanook
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Shambala Sports Network, Host, Producer
He's also got a VERY good offensive line.
1/13/11 4:41 PM
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thePetester
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"He's also got a VERY good offensive line. "

Yeah, that was my point re: the offensive line.
1/13/11 5:57 PM
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jaywill
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hes got some good cameramen too
1/13/11 9:36 PM
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supersaiyan
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lol
1/13/11 9:37 PM
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supersaiyan
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thePetester - "He's also got a VERY good offensive line. "

Yeah, that was my point re: the offensive line.


lol
1/13/11 10:27 PM
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Waylay
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thePetester - I am so tired of all these New England DORKS! Last time I checked he had:

a receiver who had 4 straight 100 reception seasons
a super bowl MVP
2 good pass catching tight ends
a rb that ran for 12 touchdowns
an offensive line so good that one of its starters only played half a season and is still starting in the pro bowl and another alternate.

Not to mention one of the best talent evaluators and coaches (questionable actions not withstanding) of the past 25 years.

I have come to the realization I don't hate the patriots, I hate the fans.

Another way to write this list

a receiver who was undrafted and was let go by two other teams
a super bowl mvp who in 4 years with another team only caught more than 50 catches once, only went over seven hundred yards once, and never caught more than 4 touchdowns.
2 rookie tight ends
a running back that was undrafted

The o-line I will give you. The Patriots have put great focus on the O-line and drafted extremely well there.

So in summation you have two received that did nothing at other teams and two rookie tight ends.  You have an offense skill roster that has changed almost every year. Go look at the turnover on the roster from their first SB, to their third, up to today. The only constant in that group is Tom Brady. I am not a Pats fan, but I can't understand why people don't want to give this guy his due. 


1/13/11 10:38 PM
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thePetester
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waylay,

You forget to mention the fact that I said he has one of the best talent evaluators and coaches ever. Part of that is knowing what players are going to fit. I would say the only real constant has been Belichik. Remeber, this is a system derived by a coach that put up very similar numbers with a QB that hadn't played a meaningful down of football since his senior year in HIGH SCHOOL.

To say what they were thought of before Belichik picked them up is irrelevant. The guy has proven himself able to pick players that others thought were nobodies (Vrabel) or misfits (Bruschi whom just about everyone thought had no position, too small for the line to slow for LB coming out of college) on both sides of the ball.

In all honesty, I think Brady is a top 10 qb of the last 45 years. I was just tired of hearing everyone say he has nobody when that is, in fact, not the case. Belichik has surrounded him with players that fit the system perfectly. But more than anything it goes back to the best offensive line in football over the last 10 years.
1/14/11 12:18 AM
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Kliquid
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Welker only went over 100 receptions in 3 seasons.

Also, you only need to look at Deion Branch's career with and without Brady to realize how good Brady really is.
1/14/11 8:56 AM
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supersaiyan
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thePetester - waylay,

You forget to mention the fact that I said he has one of the best talent evaluators and coaches ever. Part of that is knowing what players are going to fit. I would say the only real constant has been Belichik. Remeber, this is a system derived by a coach that put up very similar numbers with a QB that hadn't played a meaningful down of football since his senior year in HIGH SCHOOL.

To say what they were thought of before Belichik picked them up is irrelevant. The guy has proven himself able to pick players that others thought were nobodies (Vrabel) or misfits (Bruschi whom just about everyone thought had no position, too small for the line to slow for LB coming out of college) on both sides of the ball.

In all honesty, I think Brady is a top 10 qb of the last 45 years. I was just tired of hearing everyone say he has nobody when that is, in fact, not the case. Belichik has surrounded him with players that fit the system perfectly. But more than anything it goes back to the best offensive line in football over the last 10 years.



how the heck did anyone think VRABEL was a "nobody" ? this dude played DE with Ohio STATE and a starter with the D-line of the STeelers.
1/20/11 2:15 PM
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thePetester
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Edited: 01/20/11 2:21 PM
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You are an idiot.

Vrabel never started for the Steelers, at d-line or where he really played which is LB. He was a backup that saw limited action. The steelers did not even make him an offer when his contract was up. In fact, he almost retired if it had not been for Cowher telling him that he would be a starter, just not in Pittsburgh because of the current staff of LINEBACKERS.

He was a LINEBACKER that NEVER STARTED, not a D-LINEMAN that started.

He was a NOBODY with the STEELERS. Just because he played at OSU does not make him an instant starter and hof'r where ever he ends up at (I am assuming you went to OSU because I know you are a Steelers fan. Flame away).
1/20/11 2:35 PM
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thePetester
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"Welker only went over 100 receptions in 3 seasons."
My bad, but my point still stands that he did it with a guy who hadn't played essentially at all since high school.

"Also, you only need to look at Deion Branch's career with and without Brady to realize how good Brady really is."
I did. Other than 2005, his numbers are relatively close. He was injured a lot in Seattle. Catches per game, yards per catch are slightly lower in Seattle. For how much of a difference there is between Brady and Hasselbeck/Wallace/etc, you would think that there would be a huge discrepancy. There just isn't (especially when you consider Branch was playing through injury in Seattle and relatively healthy in NE):

2005 New England Patriots 16 78 998 12.8
2003 New England Patriots 15 57 803 14.1
2006 Seattle Seahawks 14 53 725 13.7
2007 Seattle Seahawks 11 49 661 13.5
2009 Seattle Seahawks 14 45 437 9.7
2002 New England Patriots 13 43 489 11.4
2004 New England Patriots 9 35 454 13.0
2008 Seattle Seahawks 8 30 412 13.7


2010 New England Patriots 11 48 706 14.7
2010 Seattle Seahawks 4 13 112 8.6

I have already stated I think Brady is one of the best qbs in the last 45 years. As shown, he doesn't take Branch from some bum to NFL Pro Bowl level.
1/22/11 8:15 AM
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Kliquid
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Edited: 01/22/11 8:17 AM
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I believe I'm right in this assesment, but it's from memory. If someone has the information available, please feel free to correct me...

But I believe Branch was only seeing the field on about 50-60% of the offensive plays during most of his first stint in New England, particularly toward the beginning. He was on the field more regularly in 2005 (his final year in NE).

Branch played in 14 games in 2009 and had 437 yards, man. That's god awful. And this is while seeing significant playing time.

And anyway, no one thinks Deion Branch is good. The point is actually that Deion Branch sucks.

If you're using a guy whose best stats on another team were 725 yards and saying that he's good, then you're making a very weak argument about him.

I can agree with most of the other arguments you made because anyone who thinks that the Patriots had "no one besides Brady" has no idea what he or she is talking about, but Deion Branch? That's actually Brady's crowning achievement -- damn near giving that scrub a 1,000 yard season. Maybe Troy Brown in 2001. 1,200 yards receiving by TROY FREAKING BROWN, REALLY?!

Brady is sick, man.  The dude is just nasty.
1/22/11 11:58 AM
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supersaiyan
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Edited: 01/22/11 11:58 AM
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thePetester - You are an idiot.

Vrabel never started for the Steelers, at d-line or where he really played which is LB. He was a backup that saw limited action. The steelers did not even make him an offer when his contract was up. In fact, he almost retired if it had not been for Cowher telling him that he would be a starter, just not in Pittsburgh because of the current staff of LINEBACKERS.

He was a LINEBACKER that NEVER STARTED, not a D-LINEMAN that started.

He was a NOBODY with the STEELERS. Just because he played at OSU does not make him an instant starter and hof'r where ever he ends up at (I am assuming you went to OSU because I know you are a Steelers fan. Flame away).



i was asking a rhetorical question dude --no need for the insults. no i didnt go to ohio state so no need to assume when u can just ask me outright n plain. vrabel was still a decent player at OSU...everyone cant be the BIG MAN on a team

(OSU doesnt = STeeler fan )
1/23/11 10:58 PM
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buddyang
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did everyone forget that randy moss played for the pats for like 4 or 5 seasons. plus they had stud running backs too but no one brought that up.
1/25/11 12:53 PM
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thePetester
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Edited: 01/25/11 12:57 PM
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You state:
"Also, you only need to look at Deion Branch's career with and without Brady to realize how good Brady really is. "

Then you state:
"If you're using a guy whose best stats on another team were 725 yards and saying that he's good, then you're making a very weak argument about him. "

YOU ARE THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT UP BRANCH IN THE FIRST PLACE. Like many others that I speak to/read, you put him up as the example of how great Brady is when the numbers clearly state otherwise. I only use him as an example because most people (you in particular in this instance) to show Brady's "greatness". You are worse than most though, because as soon as the numbers are shown, you turn the argument to say Branch isn't any good anyways.

My point, clearly stated, is that he doesn't change Branch much at all.
1/25/11 12:53 PM
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thePetester
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"i was asking a rhetorical question dude --no need for the insults. no i didnt go to ohio state so no need to assume when u can just ask me outright n plain. vrabel was still a decent player at OSU...everyone cant be the BIG MAN on a team"

There are lots of decent players from OSU. Maybe I was a bit too strong with the insult, but the statement was factually incorrect (both position and value/impact to the Steelers).

1/25/11 1:50 PM
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supersaiyan
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its all good man i just felt he was getting less credit ...i feel if u can even make it in the NFL u have to be a BADASS to some degree :)
1/25/11 2:59 PM
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thePetester
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"a receiver who was undrafted and was let go by two other teams"
Missed this gem. He was cut by the Chargers after the first game of the regular season. The dolphins did not let him go, they traded him to the pats for a 2nd and 7th rounder. Given the value to which Belichik covets draft picks, I would say he had Welker graded relatively high.

"its all good man i just felt he was getting less credit ...i feel if u can even make it in the NFL u have to be a BADASS to some degree :) "
Agreed, when I say some sucks or is nobody or whatever in the NFL, I am strictly speaking in relative terms. The guy is obviously a phenomonal athlete.

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