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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Georgii Zantaraia: your thoughts?


1/15/11 7:32 AM
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Seong gyeong
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"Bear hugs and kosotos."

Personally, I like watching his matches. Not sure if it's a good idea for others to try and copy his techniques (à la Yamashita's osoto-gari). One of my favorite judokas for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3fRVCJguCo
1/15/11 9:26 PM
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jayflo145
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enjoy
1/15/11 9:46 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Sadly, quite a few of those grips would now get penalized, as they would be called "bad judo."

That being said, the guy is bad ass. BTW, what's with the Rob Van Dam thumbs thing?

He looks like the sort of judoka who would do a great job transitioning to MMA, as he knows how to control the body, use various grips, change levels, etc. Also, that kosoto that he does it great for transitioning into MMA positioning.
1/15/11 10:01 PM
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Seong gyeong
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Thanks, Jayflo.

The RVD thumbs crack me up.

I agree about the kosoto working well if he were to go into MMA. Kawajiri uses that all the time with a pretty high percentage.
1/15/11 10:05 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Maybe it's my wrestling bias but I love that style of play. It's tighter and as mentioned it translates well to mma.
1/15/11 11:09 PM
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johntucker100
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no clue who he is but he has blue belt judo with world class power lifting stenght.
1/15/11 11:58 PM
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Seong gyeong
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johntucker100 - no clue who he is but he has blue belt judo with world class power lifting stenght.


Legitimate LOL.
1/16/11 3:09 AM
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Seong gyeong
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He was ranked #1 for -60 kg by the IJF. Not sure if he still is.
1/16/11 4:25 PM
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Empire
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love that style. that's how i like to play standup. w/ an occassional uchimata thrown in.
1/16/11 10:28 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Reminds me of the 66K Mongolian 2009 world champion Hashbataar Tsagaanbaatar with his bear hug takedowns. These guys have overpowering "judo".
1/18/11 6:09 AM
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Bently
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I tried to find all the illegal grips, even under current rules, and maybe saw one leg grab that was questionable.

Bear hug is only illegal if you lock your hands. He was using "double underhooks". Perfectly legal, and not bad Judo at all.

Ben
1/18/11 2:32 PM
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faixa rua
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didnt the gracies teach that takedown...I play!
1/18/11 6:46 PM
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judoblackbelt
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FR - I've seen the Gracies teach it. I have seen only a handfull judo players who are able to do this at a world class level. These judo players have all the other skills that keeps their them in the top 3 of the world rankings.
1/18/11 6:47 PM
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faixa rua
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so why I can't get those grips in judo frens?
1/18/11 7:02 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Bently - Bear hug is only illegal if you lock your hands.


When the hell did this become a rule? Since the IJF's anti-Naidangiin Tuvshinbayar rule changes, or have I been a cheatin' bastard my whole judo career? lol
1/18/11 7:19 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Missing glove- Naidan did all the leg grabs and practically hugged the ground with his bent over Mongolian wrestling style that led to the rule change. If you want to see "bear hug" type grab and throws the 66K MOngolian Hashbataar Tsagaanbaatar is the man. His matches are on youtube and judovision.org.
1/18/11 7:30 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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I'm just asking when the rule went into effect. Was it thrown in with the no-pants grabbing rule or has it been in place forever and I've just been happy in my ignorance?
1/18/11 7:30 PM
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faixa rua
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fren my question is why can't I get these grips why it's not easy?
 
1/18/11 7:33 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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faixa, are you talking about the clinc/bear hug when grip fighting? If so, you really have to work on level changes and penetration from the outside/no hand judo range.
1/18/11 8:10 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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allcloser,

things have changed since then. President Kano made a PR release stating that he was changing Kodokan rules to mirror those of the IJF.

I first knew about this when my local shiai's, which are run by Kodokan rules as stated before every tournament (you know, when everyone is standing around in school lines, just after Kimigayo, and before the trio to quartet of old guys comes up and offers the same motivational advice as every other tournament), and one of the refs warned me that my grips (I favor a double underhook as well) would become illegal next tournament.

I tore my ACL soon after that, so I haven't seen the results of the new rules in local competitions yet.

But yeah, Kodokan rules are changing as well.
1/18/11 8:11 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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allcloser - Just before the 2010 Worlds last September, I believe.


Thanks for the clarification.


I wonder if the rule changes will trickle all the way down to the local level? Meaning, can I sneak by with bear hugs while wearing my 72% chance of being illegal gi? ;)
1/18/11 8:19 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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allcloser - 
faixa rua - so why I can't get those grips in judo frens?


Basically they want to Judoka to grop the gi to do Judo.
In the old times everyone gripped the gi. Some people started doing thngs differetly. They want to go back to the old times.

Naidan is a badass even after the rule changes. (He beat Kaihan Takagi at the 2010 Worlds. ) His seoi is incredible. He is not THE reason for those adjustments.



While he may not be THE reason, I think the spread of effective tactics like his, and the failure of the traditional Judo powers to counter them, is one of the main reasons.

Kinda like the Olympics and basketball. As long as the USA was winning every gold medal, the USA had no problems with letting foreign professional players on the other teams, as our college boys were still winning. Then, when the USA lost an Olympic title, and in fact were even being pushed in the bronze medal game, the USA and the USOC suddenly started clamoring for "fairness" and letting the NBA players in.

When players from non-traditional powers like Mongolia and the 101 Former Soviet Republics (not that the USSR wasn't a powerhouse) started beating the traditional powers of Japan, Korea, Germany and France on a rather competitive basis, the IJF powers that be freaked the fuck out.

Let's be honest. If the French, Germans, Koreans and Japanese (and some Chinese women) had still been winning their traditional 70-90% of gold medals in Olympics and World Championships, the rules would never have been changed.

1/18/11 8:22 PM
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Chocolate Shatner
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Missing Glove Tape - 
allcloser - Just before the 2010 Worlds last September, I believe.


Thanks for the clarification.


I wonder if the rule changes will trickle all the way down to the local level? Meaning, can I sneak by with bear hugs while wearing my 72% chance of being illegal gi? ;)



It will definitely depend on your local area powers that be. In my area, I have a bunch of guys whose claim to fame is that they either went to the Japan Sports Science University, or trained on the same team as various current or former Japanese Olympic team members (for example, one of the coaches at a local high school was a teammate with Masato Uchishiba), so they immediately (and sometimes even unofficially beforehand) implement any rule changes very strictly.
1/19/11 12:09 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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allcloser - CS,

The rules you played under must have been local rules.

I just called (a few minutes ago) the shdobu department of the Kodokan to ask about this again. The Kodokan rules have not been changed.

So matches like Tsukinami Shiai are still conduced under the same rules. Believe me, I was persistent.

The current Kancho of the Kodokan has been Haruki Uemura since April 2009.(Yep, no Kano) He is also the chairman of the AJJF.



Dammit, looks like I've been had by the locals. When I talk about "early enforcement", what I mean is that if you do a technique that will later be penalized (but is currently okay), a lot of my local refs will "downgrade" techniques. A perfect example was at my last shiai.

Me versus a local university player. Very quickly, using grips similar to Zantaraia, I got the player off balance. I then sank in more, and used a "bear hug" to get super close. Then, I used a kosoto/uki goshi hybrid to get the guy literally chest high on my body, before dropping him to the mat with a rather large "boom" back first, accompanied by the collective crowd "uwah!" sound.

Refs calls a Yuko. The crowds reply was "ehhh?"

Later, the university guy tries a seio nage, which I fall onto my hip for (never going to my back). Waza-ari. I end up losing the match on points.

I really hated this sort of "hometown cooking" in my city, in that I know quite a few other foreigners in town who will have nothing to do with judo around here, because of the feeling of hostility and unfairness this creates.

Now I have even more concerns about my returning to judo after my knee heals. After all, if I'm gonna get screwed like this all the time, why not just go over to the Zendokai karate/MMA or the Kyokushin or the BJJ classes? At least with BJJ or Zendokai I've met open, equal treatment from all, for all.
1/19/11 8:02 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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allcloser - "if I'm gonna get screwed like this all the time"

No, you will not. Stick with Judo.
How are your knees?



Rehab is going well. I have my squat up to doing 88 kilos 10 times for sets right now, and can do lunges up and down the floor of my gym with little problems. However, I am still far away from doing any sort of twisting work. Starting in March, I can do some jogging, until then I'm strictly bicycle for cardio. In late April I can start to up the intensity of the runs, include sprints and other ballistic work on the joint. So, about July or so I can go back into actual judo work.

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