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UnderGround Forums >> Prime Tom Erickson or current Lesnar?


1/22/11 11:19 AM
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orcus
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Anyone who gets a punch in on Brock can beat him.


Except Randy, Mir, and Carwin, of course.
1/22/11 11:40 AM
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mijo
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Erickson and Brocks striking were pretty even. It would be a good fight. Slight advantage for Erickson.
1/22/11 11:40 AM
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Tommy V
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I think erickson, kerr, and coleman all smash him
1/22/11 11:46 AM
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HULC
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orcus - 
Anyone who gets a punch in on Brock can beat him.


Except Randy, Mir, and Carwin, of course.


Randy was much smaller and much older than Brock, and was still in control for most of the fight.

Mir DID beat him.

And Carwin dominated him until he gassed.

I think under the old rules - with headbutts, stamps and knees - Brock wouldn't have been able to shell up and survive Carwin's onslaught, and i think Coleman would have stopped him as well.

Ericson i never saw too much of, but he certainly had the power to beat him, and the wrestling skills to nullify his advantages.

I think he would have beat Severn and Randleman.
1/22/11 11:59 AM
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clarenceworley
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Erikson, if he would have ever had the time to train full time in MMA would be a world beater. But the fact is he never really did, so it is all conjecture. He also entered MMA, like Severn, past his "prime".

Tom posted on here alot back in the day, and even after his Herring loss. Great guy and one of my favorites.

He's the only one who would have had a chance of beating Brock.
1/22/11 12:06 PM
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EBD75
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I'd take Lesnar, via run in by Demolition. Actually, I'd take Lesnar by speed and overall skill set (modern training). Phone Post
1/22/11 12:18 PM
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WALES1
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clarenceworley - Erikson, if he would have ever had the time to train full time in MMA would be a world beater. But the fact is he never really did, so it is all conjecture. He also entered MMA, like Severn, past his "prime".

Tom posted on here alot back in the day, and even after his Herring loss. Great guy and one of my favorites.

He's the only one who would have had a chance of beating Brock.


Great post.

Does anyone know if Tom is still involved in MMA? Coaching?
1/22/11 12:22 PM
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orcus
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Randy was much smaller and much older than Brock, and was still in control for most of the fight.

Mir DID beat him.

And Carwin dominated him until he gassed.


When Mir beat him, Mir didn't land a punch. In the fight in which Brock annihilated him, Mir landed flush knees to the chin.

Randy didn't control anything at any time, landed flush shots, cut Brock, and got smashed.

Brock is the only guy Carwin hit and DIDN'T finish.
1/22/11 12:45 PM
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Hemlock
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WALES1 - 
clarenceworley - Erikson, if he would have ever had the time to train full time in MMA would be a world beater. But the fact is he never really did, so it is all conjecture. He also entered MMA, like Severn, past his "prime".

Tom posted on here alot back in the day, and even after his Herring loss. Great guy and one of my favorites.

He's the only one who would have had a chance of beating Brock.


Great post.

Does anyone know if Tom is still involved in MMA? Coaching?


Tom helped McCorkle and Meathead recently.

As a matter of fact, he helped Meathead for his last couple of fights with training at Purdue. Even gave some Purdue Heavies for them to work with.

He may not do it any more as reportedly Tom is pissed that his invite to the fights tonight was first offered then revoked last minute.

Reportedly.

So, RIP Meathead on Big Cat's comeback I guess.
1/22/11 12:48 PM
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Hemlock
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Oh, and Prime Erickson could not be contained.

The reason he is deified, is because he deserves it. He often was given 2 weeks and often less to prepare.

He was and is the best piece of unused MMA clay ever.
1/22/11 12:48 PM
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Steamfitter
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 Lesnar, without question.
1/22/11 1:27 PM
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WALES1
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And yet won and defend the title twice.

What does that say about the sport?
1/22/11 1:46 PM
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ajsr
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Hemlock - Oh, and Prime Erickson could not be contained.

The reason he is deified, is because he deserves it. He often was given 2 weeks and often less to prepare.

He was and is the best piece of unused MMA clay ever.


Everyone I've seen mention working with Erikson seems to have been shocked by just how much of an animal he actually is.
1/22/11 5:26 PM
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stlnl2
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WALES1 - And yet won and defend the title twice.

What does that say about the sport?


That is is spread paper thin (talent) at HW? Is that really news to you?
1/22/11 7:03 PM
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Jons Forsberg
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mijo - Erickson and Brocks striking were pretty even. It would be a good fight. Slight advantage for Erickson.


could Brock KO Jan Jortje in K-1 and drop Bernardo twice like Tom did?

Brock would never even step in a Ring on K-1 rules.
1/22/11 8:31 PM
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xcouturefan
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mijo - Erickson and Brocks striking were pretty even. It would be a good fight. Slight advantage for Erickson.





Erickson made Randleman leave on a stretcher.
1/22/11 8:43 PM
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Gritty
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Lesnar would have smoked Coleman but prime jacked up Kerr would have leg kicked him into oblivion
1/22/11 9:11 PM
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McLeod
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Erickson, Coleman AND Kerr were just as good, if not better wrestlers than he was. Brock CERTAINLY doesn't have better striking skills. IMO he woulda won maybe 3 out of ten against those guys back then.
1/22/11 9:12 PM
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McLeod
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Except Erickon BTW... he wins 9/10 from Brock
1/23/11 12:50 AM
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stlnl2
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WhiteWhale - "Brock is the only guy Carwin hit and DIDN'T finish."

wow u really r the ultimate shill

to those using their eyes carwin didnt really hit lesnar that hard and its fairly obvious

$


+1, all the other guys he put to sleep, he actually hit flush. Lesnar stumbled, fell and went full fetal from a left uppercut that grazed him. I think had more of the other guys just jumped right to fetal position after a punch "almost" got them solid, more of em might have survive that engagement.
1/23/11 2:19 AM
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DaemonDragon
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blank - possessing higher wrestling credentials at a lower weight class often translates to being more technical or a more disciplined at cutting weight.

"Lower weight" in this case is 220. You're still talking about huge guys in Kerr and Coleman, guys who got bigger when they went into MMA (...however they managed to do that). And of course they were more technical, it's why they were better wrestlers than Brock. Just as beastly athletically but more technical.
WALES1 - DaemonDragon - The simply truth is that Kerr's biggest win is Enson.

Mir, Carwin, Randy and Heath are much bigger and better wins.

On paper, I can say Lesnar could beat Kerr, Coleman, Randleman, Erikson, Severn and Randleman by simply looking at who each fighter has beaten.

We're talking about a "who would win" situation, not a "career rankings based on wins" situation. You cannot possibly with a straight face bring up the Carwin fight as an argument *for* Lesnar. Lesnar looked atrocious. Yeah he beat him which means in terms of "rankings" he should get credit, but in terms of "who would win" - nobody in their right minds would favor Lesnar in a rematch (unless they think Carwin will be affected by back surgery). Not saying Lesnar couldn't beat him again of course, but choosing a favorite is a different story than giving him a chance. And what we're doing here is trying to figure out who should be favored in a hypothetical fight.
Kerr was only walking around at a very inflated 250-255 where it seemed like his frame couldn't support that much muscle easily, he got tired easily and got out-muscled/wrestled by fujita and didn't have the mental fortitude to overcome bad situations which brock would certainly put him in.

Coleman was the best wrestler out of all 4 however he was also the smallest, being a natural 205er whose supplement use made him 20+ lbs bigger,

I think Kerr would be more likely to put Brock in bad situations than vice versa. But yeah, given how similar both Kerr and Brock are in terms of mentally folding, that fight is pretty unpredictable. I just feel as if mentally, Brock would be the one who was more intimidated there. I also feel that Kerr had the more devastating offense, and he was definely the superior grappler overall - in terms of grappling he's a legend. I can see the argument for Lesnar however.

Coleman was never really a "natural 205er". He only went to 205 when he was old and shriveled. He wrestled internationally at 220 with weight cutting. The "supplements" certainly made him larger, and especially helped him maintain strength at an older age - but he was a large man before that. He was also incredibly powerful, for instance his famous 600 pound bench press claims (he might've been lying, but I can certainly believe him).
HaMMerHouseFAN - You might want to do some research if you think Kerr was a better wrestler than Coleman....

Yes you're right, I meant more to say grappler, sorry for that. Coleman would've been the clear favorite in a straight wrestling match, although it would've been competitive I believe. I also mis-typed - I wrote "Kerr was probably a better wrestler than Kurt Angle at the same weight" when I really meant to say "Kurt Angle was probably not that much better than Mark Kerr at the same weight". Basically I meant to say Angle>Kerr but not by very much.
orcus - In the fight in which Brock annihilated him, Mir landed flush knees to the chin.

Randy didn't control anything at any time, landed flush shots, cut Brock, and got smashed.

Brock is the only guy Carwin hit and DIDN'T finish.

Mir landed one flush knee and Brock landed on top of him because of it, not the best example. Randy did control him for a good bit, although Lesnar won the first round, not Randy as some people mistakenly believe. But old man Randy controlling him so much and being able to scramble off his back (when historically, Randy always got smashed when put on his back), together with the Carwin and Cain fights, shows that Lesnar has huge problems with wrestlers (and I believe in general anyone with scrambling ability of any kind would do well against Lesnar; Mir is the ideal matchup for him because he has poor TDD and zero scrambling).

As for Carwin not finishing him, Carwin grazed him with an uppercut from his off hand while jumping (feet not planted), and landed a couple nice shots on the ground, but nothing that powerful other than the one elbow. As stated earlier in the thread, people really overstate what Carwin actually hit Lesnar with.
1/23/11 2:50 AM
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Pro Ice
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Edited: 01/23/11 3:09 AM
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This was Erikson with just over 6 months of mma experience.

Tom Erikson vs Pantera Negra - Brazil Open 97

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UsTogJxVLg


Tom Erikson v Kevin Randleman - Brazil Open '97

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lodgVKNWFCo
1/23/11 4:25 PM
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Seamus619
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 .
1/23/11 4:30 PM
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Jack Skellington
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 Big Cat is over rated

I've always felt this way
1/25/11 12:16 AM
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xcouturefan
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ttt

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