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HolyGround >> Hey Ridgeback, what is the Eastern Orthodox interp


1/23/11 3:53 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Hey Ridgeback, what is the Eastern Orthodox interpretation of the following scripture passage. It sounds rather Jehovah-Witnessy to me. Just wondering your thoughts:

1 Corinthians 15:

23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.

26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.”[e] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
1/23/11 6:06 PM
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Ridgeback
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Juijitsuboxer - Hey Ridgeback, what is the Eastern Orthodox interpretation of the following scripture passage. It sounds rather Jehovah-Witnessy to me. Just wondering your thoughts:

1 Corinthians 15:

23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.

24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.

25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.

26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.”[e] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.)

28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.
The EOC holds to an "amillenial" eschatology, meaning the term "1000 years" is a symbolic term (it is used symbolically many times throughout scripture) and that Christ's reign is now.   So the verse above is a description of the parousia, or Second Coming, when the old world comes to an end and there is Judgment.  Then death and hades are destroyed and everything is under the authority of Christ (one reason why we don't conceive of Gehenna as a separate realm apart from Christ's presence).   

I have read from a few Universalists who also take this to mean that eventually everyone will submit to Christ's authority and repent, but that is not a particularly Orthodox view.

A really good book on all the specifics is entitled A Second Look at the Second Coming by T.L. Frazier.  He gets into all the different eschatological schools of thought while also covering the Orthodox view.

Yes it is true that some American sects read this and other verses as if they are pointing to an earthly reign over a fallen world, but they see what they were taught to see.  
 
1/24/11 12:14 AM
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Ridgeback
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 Oh and I should add that in liturgical services a lot of Orthodox language is non-linear when it comes to events, so in one sense Christ has already put everything under foot (under his power) and conquered death and hades.  Orthodoxy tends to have the time sense of the narrative rather than the factory.  All that to say you might hear or read from an Orthodox source stating that all these things already took place.  
1/25/11 1:46 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Thanks Ridge, my main question was related to the relationship between the father and Jesus. The verse talks about the Son as being inferior to the Father, where the Son gives His authority back to God in the end so that the Father will have authority over the son. how does this fit with the relationship of Jesus and the Father in the Nicene creed?
1/27/11 9:34 PM
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Ridgeback
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 Ahh, that makes sense.  I was thinking of the Millenarian views of Jehovah's Witnesses. 

I suppose the Orthodox response would be that you have to take all the verses as a whole and not isolate a single one that seems to point to Jesus being created or somehow lesser than the Father.  The Arian heresy started with Arius isolating certain verses like this one.

I see no contradiction since each person in the Trinity is in some sense positionally different.  CS Lewis described it like one book sitting on top of another, but both books had always been there in that position so you couldn't say that one preceded the other.  

It is actually an interesting question I might float by a theologian via email just to see how he might respond (I have no idea if he would answer email like that) since he specializes in Trinitarian theology.  The problem with the Trinity is that language is so limited it gets really easy to use the wrong words and then mislead people about what the Church really teaches.  In the Creed each of the roles of the Three Persons is distinct, but they are also described at co-eternal and in full communion with each other.  I've long since given up on trying to rationally understand it.  The "real" theologians in the Church e.g. those who actually experience direct communion with the Trinity, are pretty unanimous in teaching that one experiences the Trinity directly, rather than understanding them in an abstract intellectual sense.
1/28/11 2:17 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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Thanks for the response Ridge.

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