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NFLGround >> Carson Palmer demanding trade


7/28/11 10:43 PM
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Alco Hauler
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DaveFu - What is the Pickens Clause?


Tuesday, July 18, 2000
Brown writes to defend loyalty clause


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Column: It protects investment


By Mark Curnutte
The Cincinnati Enquirer
The Cincinnati Bengals say their new “loyalty clause” has been misunderstood and misrepresented in some media reports.

In a guest column in today's Cincinnati Enquirer, Bengals President Mike Brown said the clause is about “(1) encouraging people to honor contractual commitments, (2) encouraging them, if they are under contract, to put their teammates above themselves, and (3) conserving scarce salary cap resources to apply to people who want to be with a team.”

If a Bengals player criticizes the organization, coaches or teammates in an effort to get a new, more lucrative contract as a free agent, Brown said, club management can fine the player all or part of the value of that player's signing bonus.

But, says players' union counsel Richard Berthelsen, the clause is an attempt by the Bengals to impose greater discipline than is already allowed by the NFL's collective bargaining agreement.

The maximum penalty a team can hand out is a four-game suspension without pay, Berthelsen said.

“The collective bargaining agreement is the master agreement that supersedes anything a team can do,” he said. “They're trying to take discipline to another level.”

Said Berthelsen, “There's a big difference between what Carl Pickens says and what Carl Pickens does. He did not fail or refuse to perform. Carl Pickens never said, "I'm not going to perform.'”

Union officials wrote to the NFL, saying the clause violates the collective bargaining agreement. NFL Management Council officials wrote back saying they believe it doesn't.

“We're considering whether to bring the case (before a non-injury arbitrator) now or wait until the Bengals first try to enforce it,” Berthelsen said.

The provision is being called the “Carl Pickens Clause.”

Pickens signed a five-year, $23 million contract before last season. The wide receiver was paid $3.5 million to sign and a $4.5 million salary for playing in 1999. At the end of last season, however, he criticized the team for retaining coach Bruce Coslet.

If the Bengals cut Pickens, he keeps the signing bonus.

Brown said such comments “undermine the team's ability to win games.”

The Bengals are among the NFL teams that are competing for top players by paying signing bonuses.

Brown said the team is trying to protect its investment by spelling out a way to get back signing bonus money if the player demands a trade — similar to Pickens — or retires.

“The reality is, of course, that the multimillion dollar signing bonus was nothing other than payment for future performance over the term of the contract,” Brown wrote in the guest column.

7/28/11 10:50 PM
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Alco Hauler
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"Pickens Clause"
by Guttpuppy » Sat May 17, 2003 5:09 pm

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

It took years of on-field deeds for Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner from Southern California, to merit the $10.01 million signing bonus he recently received as the first player selected in the 2003 draft.

It might take just a few words, however, to lose the eight-figure jackpot.

The contract that Palmer signed with Cincinnati three days before the draft, a six-year deal that could be worth as much as $49 million according to NFL Players Association calculations, includes a loyalty clause Bengals officials have been negotiating into deals for the last few years.

Under terms of the loyalty clause, Palmer could conceivably forfeit his entire signing bonus if he makes remarks critical of the Bengals during his first season with the team. The penalty is prorated, annually reduced by one-sixth of the total signing bonus, for the subsequent seasons.

Given his well-measured responses to most media questions, and an inherent economy of words, it isn't likely that Palmer will ever have be penalized under terms of the clause. But if he is ever critical of the franchise, and team officials can document the incident, it would be a costly slip of the tongue.

The signing bonus addendum to the contract stipulates that Palmer return all or a portion of the signing bonus: ". . . if player makes any public comment to the media, including but not limited to the newspaper, magazines, television, radio or internet that breaches player's obligation of loyalty to the club, club coaches, or club management."

In the agent community, the stipulation is known as the "Pickens Clause," nicknamed for former Cincinnati wide receiver Carl Pickens, who public lambasting of the franchise was a source of consternation to owner Mike Brown and other team officials. The team began to include the clause in rookie contracts in 2000 and, in several instances, it was a major sticking point in negotiations and led to a few lengthy holdouts.

The NFLPA challenged the loyalty clause, suggesting it violated terms of the collective bargaining agreement, or was at least superfluous. An arbitrator ruled that the "Pickens Clause" could be included in contracts if it was negotiated and agreed to by the player.
7/28/11 11:01 PM
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Alco Hauler
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I don't think the clause has ever been enforced, but I do know that it has been the cause of lengthy holdouts by early round draft picks.

Even a non-lawyer can read that shit and see how open it is to interpretation.

But you don't hear about WHY they held out, because doing so could be a direct violation of this clause.

The organization is a JOKE. How about running a team so your players don't have a reason to talk bad about you?

It sucks being loyal.

Who Dey
7/29/11 11:35 PM
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Alco Hauler
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thirdleg - I don't understand the Bengals' owners' logic. First off, sure it's a contract, but you can still make a trade of your own making!

Second, doesn't this make Cinci an even less attractive place for free agents???????


You are so correct it makes me want to cry.
7/31/11 10:21 AM
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C1010
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It seems a bit personal, because Bengals finally traded Ocho who had a year remaining in contract and yet Mike Brown doesn't even want to hear offers on Carson.
7/31/11 11:17 AM
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Alco Hauler
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Ocho demanded a trade in much the same way 2 years ago only to have Mike Brown do the same thing he is now doing to Carson.

Washington offered (2) 1st round picks for him.

Instead Mike Brown held his ground, Ocho played and 2 years later they trade him - on Mike Brown's terms - for a 5th and a 6th.

The man is an idiot.

Carson will probably eventually be traded (probably next season or right before this season's trade deadline), but it will be on Brown's terms - not Carson's. It's petty and childish, but that's who is running this team.
7/31/11 12:59 PM
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Jmunzies
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Alco Hauler - Ocho demanded a trade in much the same way 2 years ago only to have Mike Brown do the same thing he is now doing to Carson.

Washington offered (2) 1st round picks for him.

Instead Mike Brown held his ground, Ocho played and 2 years later they trade him - on Mike Brown's terms - for a 5th and a 6th.

The man is an idiot.

Carson will probably eventually be traded (probably next season or right before this season's trade deadline), but it will be on Brown's terms - not Carson's. It's petty and childish, but that's who is running this team.


Wow
8/4/11 2:55 AM
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cincibill
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A thread this long and no mention of the crap head coach. Carson deserves much better than the O-line, the coaches, and Ocho no-show.
8/4/11 8:45 AM
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DaveFu
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I feel sorry for you guys. At least our owner isn't allergic to winning.


-lions fan
8/4/11 4:30 PM
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C1010
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cincibill - A thread this long and no mention of the crap head coach. Carson deserves much better than the O-line, the coaches, and Ocho no-show.


I'm actually surprised he lasted this long and frankly I don't understand why they gave him an extension. Carson, Ocho, and other players seemed to be at odds with Marvin. The owner of the Bengals should trade Carson to the Dolphins, guaranteed they will give a 1st rounder for him.
8/11/11 3:25 PM
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Alco Hauler
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cincibill - A thread this long and no mention of the crap head coach. Carson deserves much better than the O-line, the coaches, and Ocho no-show.


The only real problem I have with Marvin is his game clock management skills. Terrible.

Everything else can be rolled up to Mike Brown. It's probably hard for Marvin to be a big discipline guy when it's the man upstairs making all the calls.

You think Marvin wanted Andre "Tub O Shit" Smith? No way. That was Mike Brown getting a "bargain" on a guy people had said could go #1.
9/2/11 9:37 AM
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C1010
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d821e8b0f/article/report-bengals-owner-met-with-palmer-before-start-of-camp?module=HP11_headline_stack

Report: Bengals owner met with Palmer before start of camp

It wasn't enough to pull him out of retirement, but quarterback Carson Palmer had a face-to-face meeting with Bengals owner Mike Brown in late July, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported Thursday, citing league sources.

The team also placed a call to Palmer's representatives last week, before cutting the quarterback's brother, Jordan, a backup passer.

ESPN first reported that Palmer and Brown huddled at Paul Brown Stadium the week of July 25, sometime after the lockout ended and before the team reported to Georgetown College on July 29 for camp.

It's unclear the meeting happened before or after Brown's harshest words for the quarterback on July 26.

"Carson signed a contract, he made a commitment," Brown said. "He gave us his word. We relied on his word and his commitment. We expected him to perform here. If he is going to walk away from his commitment we aren’t going to reward him for doing it."

The Enquirer reported that while the stalemate between the two sides is ongoing, some within the organization believe that Palmer, scheduled to make $11.5 million this season, could end up reporting to the team at some stage.

If that ever happened, offensive coordinator Jay Gruden believes it would take time for Palmer to learn his new offense.

"In order to play quarterback at this level in the new system, I would think he would want to practice and obviously he’s made a decision very clear that he’s not coming back," Gruden said. "But if he did walk in I’d welcome him back I’d suppose. He’d have to win the job."

The Bengals, who open against the Cleveland Browns on Sept. 11, drafted Andy Dalton in the second round of April's draft. Veteran Bruce Gradkowski is set to backup Dalton with Dan LeFevour behind him.
9/2/11 10:56 AM
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DaveFu
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I hope Carson fucks them over and shows up! As a Lions fan, you NEED this sorts of acts of defiance to motivate the fans and ownership.
9/2/11 12:06 PM
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thePetester
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Agreed DaveFU. I am a Steelers fan, but I like it when the Bungals stink, but not the way Paul Brown is killing the fans throughout the last 20+years. I feel bad for the fans that continue to show up and support this cluster-f of a team.
9/2/11 1:28 PM
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DaveFu
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As an AFC North guy, is the only team you hate in the division the Ravens? Do you feel sorry for the Ohio teams being so shitty for so long? I'm a NFC North guy and we all have sucked for extended periods of time, so there aren't any rivalries, just a lot of mutual condolences. I'm sure it is that way in the NFC West too.
9/3/11 5:42 AM
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Waylay
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DaveFu - As an AFC North guy, is the only team you hate in the division the Ravens? Do you feel sorry for the Ohio teams being so shitty for so long? I'm a NFC North guy and we all have sucked for extended periods of time, so there aren't any rivalries, just a lot of mutual condolences. I'm sure it is that way in the NFC West too.

 Weird random stat I saw this week. The NFC West has had a team win a playoff game for the last seven years (2004 was an inter divisional playoff game). No other division gets close, the next best was 4 (from memory). Obviously it is still a weak division, but a pretty strange streak they are on.
9/3/11 6:16 PM
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Alco Hauler
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thePetester - Agreed DaveFU. I am a Steelers fan, but I like it when the Bungals stink, but not the way Paul Brown is killing the fans throughout the last 20+years. I feel bad for the fans that continue to show up and support this cluster-f of a team.


Dont confuse Paul Brown with Mike Brown. Any football knowledge that Paul Brown's sperm might have had trickled down the crack of his wife's ass on the night Mike was conceived.

Somewhere in Cleveland, there is a pillow that could run this team better than Mike.
9/4/11 11:04 AM
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Mr B Rock
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 As a Bills fan I feel your pain.  Please Ralph sell the team!!
9/4/11 11:37 AM
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Jmunzies
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Alco Hauler - 
thePetester - Agreed DaveFU. I am a Steelers fan, but I like it when the Bungals stink, but not the way Paul Brown is killing the fans throughout the last 20+years. I feel bad for the fans that continue to show up and support this cluster-f of a team.


Dont confuse Paul Brown with Mike Brown. Any football knowledge that Paul Brown's sperm might have had trickled down the crack of his wife's ass on the night Mike was conceived.

Somewhere in Cleveland, there is a pillow that could run this team better than Mike.

LMFAO!!! Can I use this when bitching about mike brown?
9/6/11 12:57 PM
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thePetester
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"As an AFC North guy, is the only team you hate in the division the Ravens? Do you feel sorry for the Ohio teams being so shitty for so long?"

Yes, I HATE the Ravens and really just feel bad for the Bengals and Browns fans. I still get mad when one of the beats the Steelers, not because of the team that beat the Steelers, but more of a 'chalked those four up to wins at the beginning of the season, how could they blow THAT game' type anger.

"Dont confuse Paul Brown with Mike Brown. "
My bad, I knew it and still typed it incorrectly.
9/6/11 12:57 PM
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thePetester
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"As an AFC North guy, is the only team you hate in the division the Ravens? Do you feel sorry for the Ohio teams being so shitty for so long?"

Yes, I HATE the Ravens and really just feel bad for the Bengals and Browns fans. I still get mad when one of the beats the Steelers, not because of the team that beat the Steelers, but more of a 'chalked those four up to wins at the beginning of the season, how could they blow THAT game' type anger.

"Dont confuse Paul Brown with Mike Brown. "
My bad, I knew it and still typed it incorrectly.
10/18/11 10:38 AM
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C1010
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Wow looks like Carson will get his wish. He is most likely going to the raiders for 2 first round picks.
10/18/11 11:30 AM
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C1010
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Its a good move for both teams. Raiders aren't exactly geniuses when it comes to draft prospecting. Bengals get a 1st rounder and a 2nd which could turn into a 1st to build up their team. Finally, Carson has a new system to play in. Its a win all around. Im just curious how they managed to get Brown to change his mind.
10/18/11 12:41 PM
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leglockfan
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As a Raiders fan I am not crazy about the price of the trade. I think Carson is a pretty badass QB and can produce very well but damn at the draft picks price. I actually would have rather seen Orton for a 5th or something. Curses... oh well seems like an emotional pickup... kind of a panic pickup
10/18/11 1:34 PM
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xcouturefan
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C1010 - 

Im just curious how they managed to get Brown to change his mind.




Hue Jackson has worked for the Bengals.

That might have helped when talking about the trade with Mike Brown.

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