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UnderGround Forums >> Is Anderson Silva the G.O.A.T?


2/6/11 10:38 AM
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Underground News
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The Underground News, Editor
 

For years it's been a question that has caused millions of arguments on message boards all over the world. Who is the best fighter in the history of mixed martial arts? Was it the great Rickson Gracie, finishing all challengers and running a submission train on a hundred Japanese judoka and jiu jitsu aces in a single day? Perhaps it was Frank Shamrock, the sport's first believer in exercise science and the UFC's undefeated champion at 205 pounds. Some might put the crown on Fedor Emelianenko, who ruled the heavyweight division for much of the last decade.

Those people would all all be wrong.

Anderson Silva is an athlete beyond compare. His record inside the UFC's Octagon is umatched in the promotion's history.

Perhaps it is his destiny to be respected but never loved. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. Love him or hate him, we are all witnessing greatness every time he fights. At 35, his career is on it's final act. It's important we enjoy him every chance we get. There will never be another to compare.

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2/6/11 10:51 AM
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SLOPPYPARTYBOTTOM
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clearly is
2/6/11 10:52 AM
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jonnyjitsu uktt
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Yeah I think he has to be now. I just can't see anybody beating him. I'm not a silva fan by the way. Phone Post
2/6/11 10:52 AM
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MMAfan55
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We'll see after GSP Phone Post
2/6/11 10:54 AM
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Brock75thRanger
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winner of him vs GSP
2/6/11 10:56 AM
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RJJH
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the guy is awesome, but I am still not convinced of his p4p status.
2/6/11 10:58 AM
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Stuart Scott's Eyeball
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Yes. He will destroy GSP (if GSP even accepts the fight). Please quote me on this. Phone Post
2/6/11 11:00 AM
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360 guy
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Hes gotta be in the discussion
2/6/11 11:02 AM
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InvisibleControl
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It's still Fedor. Just because the guy lost doesn't mean everything he done is discredited... Anderson will lose someday too. People seem to not see past a guys last fight.

You watch a Fedor highlight reel & a Silva highlight reel and I can guarantee you Fedor's will wow an average viewer much more.
2/6/11 11:02 AM
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ds1970
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Yes Phone Post
2/6/11 11:13 AM
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RocketSkates
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^^^Do you know the difference between an Op-Ed piece and a news story??? Phone Post
2/6/11 11:27 AM
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TexDeuce
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Fedor is still the GOAT but Silva is right behind him. Phone Post
2/6/11 11:27 AM
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Kneeblock
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Edited: 02/06/11 11:28 AM
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KingstonHawke - He's not. Even if he beats GSP it wont make him the GOAT. Only way I can consider him that is if he moves up to 205 and wins that title.
Agreed, but he needs to beat more than Forrest and Irvin to do it.

If Anderson in his next four fights beat GSP, then moved up and beat Rampage, Thiago or Hammil, then winner of Jones/Shogun, then I'd be apt to say he's a serious threat for Fedor's GOAT tag.

As it is, Silva has benefited from looking awesome against the shallowest weight class.  He is simply leagues better than anyone at MW.  Vitor was the first guy he fought with real credentials who'd had success at a bunch of weight classes and it's not like he beat him from pillar to post.  He caught him with an unexpected front kick.  

I think with the talent he's displayed, Anderson may well be the best there is, but his competition doesn't compare to other pound for pound guys like GSP and Fedor.
  
2/6/11 11:28 AM
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Cee
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Fedor has to come to the premier MMA organization and dominate in order to cement that title of P4P king.

It's clear that no matter what organization it is, A. Silva is the premier middleweight.

He has been undefeated as champion since 2006, and has moved up a class and KO'd a former light-heavy champ effortlessly.

Fedor has fought in scuttlebutt organizations against mediocre competition and has-been fighters.

A. Silva has been tested by the best middles the UFC has served up to him.

GSP is dominant in the welters, no doubt, but he hasn't been undefeated in his championship run, and he doesn't finish as many fights, he does however, grind out and shutdown his opposition.

Jose Aldo just got on the seen and he may very well be the P4P king apparent, one day in the near future.

I think that Fedor cannot be considered the P4P king based solely on his fights in PRIDE FC, it didn't last that long, and infrequent fights against insignificant opposition in the past few years has dropped him from the P4P slot.

You see, A. Silva faced everyone that was thrown at him, everyone, he has fought for peanuts compared to Fedor in order to stake his claim as a legendary fighter, Fedor on the other hand, has failed to rise to the occasion and chose to be a prizefighter.

No shame in that, but you can't have it both ways, you cannot be considered the all time best when you fail to fight today's best! Today's best fight in the UFC, with the exception of Overeem, who himself has cemented a legacy of owning 4 titles simultaneously in four separate organizations.

To be considered P4P, you have to extend your legacy by beating, yesterday's, today's and tomorrow's best, only A. Silva has that distinction now, Chuck had it before him and went out on his shield, as he should have.

Fedor, on the other hand, has chosen a safer route, and that alone should be enough to preclude him from the discussion.
2/6/11 11:32 AM
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DaKaTAk
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Rickson Gracie-> G.O.A.T. Phone Post
2/6/11 11:41 AM
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Cee
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Here's Fedor's record:

Loss Fabricio Werdum Submission (Triangle Armbar) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Werdum 6/26/2010 1 1:09
Win Brett Rogers TKO (Punches) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers 11/7/2009 2 1:48
Win Andrei Arlovski KO (Punch) Affliction - Day of Reckoning 1/24/2009 1 3:14
Win Tim Sylvia Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Affliction - Banned 7/19/2008 1 0:36
Win Hong Man Choi Submission (Armbar) Yarennoka - New Years Eve 2007 12/31/2007 1 1:54
Win Matt Lindland Submission (Armbar) Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations 4/14/2007 1 2:58
Win Mark Hunt Submission (Kimura) PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 12/31/2006 1 8:16
Win Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) PRIDE 32 - The Real Deal 10/21/2006 2 1:15
Win Wagner da Conceicao Martins Submission (Punches) PRIDE - Shockwave 2005 12/31/2005 1 0:26
Win Mirko Filipovic Decision (Unaminous) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2005 8/28/2005 3 5:00
Win Tsuyoshi Kosaka TKO (Doctor Stoppage) PRIDE - Bushido 6 4/3/2005 1 10:00
Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 3 5:00
NC Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira No Contest - Accidental Cut PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 3:52
Win Naoya Ogawa Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Final Conflict 2004 8/15/2004 1 0:54
Win Kevin Randleman Submission (Kimura) PRIDE - Critical Countdown 2004 6/20/2004 1 1:33
Win Mark Coleman Submission (Armbar) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2004 4/25/2004 1 2:11
Win Yuji Nagata TKO (Punches) Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003 - Inoki Festival 12/31/2003 1 1:02
Win Gary Goodridge TKO (Soccer Kicks and Punches) PRIDE - Total Elimination 2003 8/10/2003 1 1:09
Win Kazuyuki Fujita Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) PRIDE 26 - Bad to the Bone 6/8/2003 1 4:17
Win Egidijus Valavicius Submission (Kimura) Rings Lithuania - Bushido Rings 7: Adrenalinas 4/5/2003 2 1:13
Win Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 25 - Body Blow 3/16/2003 3 5:00
Win Heath Herring TKO (Doctor Stoppage) PRIDE 23 - Championship Chaos 2 11/24/2002 1 10:00
Win Semmy Schilt Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 21 - Demolition 6/23/2002 3 5:00
Win Chris Haseman TKO (Punches) Rings - World Title Series Grand Final 2/15/2002 1 2:50
Win Lee Hasdell Submission (Guillotine Choke) Rings - World Title Series 5 12/21/2001 1 4:10
Win Ryushi Yanagisawa Decision (Unanimous) Rings - World Title Series 4 10/20/2001 3 5:00
Win Renato Sobral Decision (Unanimous) Rings - 10th Anniversary 8/11/2001 2 5:00
Win Kerry Schall Submission (Armbar) Rings - World Title Series 1 4/20/2001 1 1:47
Win Mihail Apostolov Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Rings Russia - Russia vs. Bulgaria 4/6/2001 1 1:03
Loss Tsuyoshi Kosaka TKO (Doctor Stoppage) Rings - King of Kings 2000 Block B 12/22/2000 1 0:17
Win Ricardo Arona Decision (Unanimous) Rings - King of Kings 2000 Block B 12/22/2000 3 5:00
Win Hiroya Takada KO (Punches) Rings - Battle Genesis Vol. 6 9/5/2000 1 0:12
Win Levon Lagvilava Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) Rings - Russia vs Georgia 8/16/2000 1 7:24
Win Martin Lazarov Submission (Guillotine Choke) Rings Russia - Russia vs. Bulgaria 5/21/2000 1 2:24

He's only beaten former UFC champions that were well beyond their title runs, he also was bigger than men like Henderson and Lindland, Randleman and Arona.

He has tocome to the UFC and take a title before he's in the conversation.

Rampage came in and took a title from Chuck by K.O.

A. Silva came in and took a title fom Franklin by K.O.

Noguiera came in and won the interim title by subbing Sylvia.

Henderson made two runs against A. Silva and Rapage, he lost, but he tried, then he smashed Bisping.

Even Crocop put it on the line and lost, but he tried.

Fedor has ducked the like of Overeem, Couture, Mir, Lesnar and most recently Valasquez and Dos Santos.

To redeem this, winning that tourney and then coming to the UFC and winning will cement it for him, not that inflated record of his, afterall, you're only as good as your LAST performance.
2/6/11 11:48 AM
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ChrisChronic
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InvisibleControl - It's still Fedor. Just because the guy lost doesn't mean everything he done is discredited... Anderson will lose someday too. People seem to not see past a guys last fight.

You watch a Fedor highlight reel & a Silva highlight reel and I can guarantee you Fedor's will wow an average viewer much more.
Anderson being the G.O.A.T. has much less to do with Fedors loss then it does with Andersons wins. He's beaten a stronger string of opponents in a more impressive fashin, with less "gimme" fights sprinkled between major fights then Fedor had. 
 
As far as highlight reels.........so? Throw on a Mike Tyson highlight reel and a Floyd Mayweather highlight reel and tell me which one will "Wow an average viewer" much more??
2/6/11 11:52 AM
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Gert B Frobe
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I am definitely NOT an ANderson Silva fan(something about him just irritates the shit out of me) but there is no denying that the guy is incredible. I just wish someone would give him the beating he so richly deserves. Same goes for Jon Jones
2/6/11 11:59 AM
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Jmunzies
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Kneeblock- Vitor was the first guy he fought with real credentials who'd had success at a bunch of weight classes and it's not like he beat him from pillar to post.  He caught him with an unexpected front kick. Dan Henderson
2/6/11 12:01 PM
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SLOPPYPARTYBOTTOM
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InvisibleControl - It's still Fedor. Just because the guy lost doesn't mean everything he done is discredited... Anderson will lose someday too. People seem to not see past a guys last fight.

You watch a Fedor highlight reel & a Silva highlight reel and I can guarantee you Fedor's will wow an average viewer much more.

I think anderson has waaaay better HL finishes than fedor

fedor cant do half that ninja shit anderson does on a spaceship KOing people with jabs backwards and kicking them in the face with segal kicks.

fedor has some chubby arm punchs HLs

2/6/11 12:13 PM
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Cee
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Here's A. Silva's record:

Win Vitor Belfort KO (Front Kick and Punches) UFC 126 - Silva vs. Belfort 2/5/2011 1 3:25
Win Chael Sonnen Submission (Triangle Armbar) UFC 117 - Silva vs. Sonnen 8/7/2010 5 3:10
Win Demian Maia Decision (Unanimous) UFC 112 - Invincible 4/10/2010 5 5:00
Win Forrest Griffin KO (Punch) UFC 101 - Declaration 8/8/2009 1 3:23
Win Thales Leites Decision (Unanimous) UFC 97 - Redemption 4/18/2009 5 5:00
Win Patrick Cote TKO (Knee Injury) UFC 90 - Silva vs. Cote 10/25/2008 3 0:39
Win James Irvin KO (Punches) UFC - Fight Night 14 7/19/2008 1 1:01
Win Dan Henderson Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) UFC 82 - Pride of a Champion 3/1/2008 2 4:52
Win Rich Franklin TKO (Knees) UFC 77 - Hostile Territory 10/20/2007 2 1:07
Win Nate Marquardt TKO (Punches) UFC 73 - Stacked 7/7/2007 1 4:50
Win Travis Lutter Submission (Elbows) UFC 67 - All or Nothing 2/3/2007 2 2:11
Win Rich Franklin KO (Knee) UFC 64 - Unstoppable 10/14/2006 1 2:59
Win Chris Leben KO (Knee) UFC - Ultimate Fight Night 5 6/28/2006 1 0:49
Win Tony Fryklund KO (Elbow) Cage Rage 16 - Critical Condition 4/22/2006 1 2:02
Loss Yushin Okami DQ (Illegal Kick) ROTR 8 - Rumble on the Rock 8 1/20/2006 1 2:33
Win Curtis Stout KO (Punches) Cage Rage 14 - Punishment 12/3/2005 1 4:59
Win Jorge Rivera TKO (Knees and Punches) Cage Rage 11 - Face Off 4/30/2005 2 3:53
Loss Ryo Chonan Submission (Flying Scissor Heel Hook) PRIDE - Shockwave 2004 12/31/2004 3 3:08
Win Lee Murray Decision (Unanimous) Cage Rage 8 - Knights of the Octagon 9/11/2004 3 5:00
Win Jeremy Horn Decision (Unanimous) Gladiator FC - Day 2 6/27/2004 3 5:00
Win Waldir dos Anjos TKO (Corner Stoppage) CF 1 - Conquista Fight 1 12/20/2003 1 5:00
Loss Daiju Takase Submission (Triangle Choke) PRIDE 26 - Bad to the Bone 6/8/2003 1 8:33
Win Carlos Newton KO (Flying Knee and Punches) PRIDE 25 - Body Blow 3/16/2003 1 6:27
Win Alexander Otsuka Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE 22 - Beasts From The East 2 9/29/2002 3 5:00
Win Alex Stiebling TKO (Doctor Stoppage) PRIDE 21 - Demolition 6/23/2002 1 1:23
Win Roan Carneiro Submission (Punches) Meca 6 - Meca World Vale Tudo 6 1/31/2002 1 5:33
Win Hayato Sakurai Decision (Unanimous) Shooto - To The Top 7 8/26/2001 3 5:00
Win Israel Albuquerque Submission (Punches) Meca 5 - Meca World Vale Tudo 5 6/9/2001 1 6:17
Win Tetsuji Kato Decision (Unanimous) Shooto - To The Top 2 3/2/2001 3 5:00
Win Claudionor Fontinelle TKO (Punches and Knees) Meca - World Vale Tudo 4 12/16/2000 1 4:35
Win Jose Barreto TKO (Head Kick and Punches) Meca 2 - Meca World Vale Tudo 2 8/12/2000 1 1:06
Loss Luiz Azeredo Decision (Unanimous) Meca 1 - Meca World Vale Tudo 1 5/27/2000 2 10:00


He doesn't have to contest any other weightclass anymore than GSP has to or Fedor has to, to make such a demand is ridiculous and unfair.

You would have to place the same demands on all title holders for the criterion to be fair.

Only BJ Penn and Randy Couture share the distinction of winning titles in two classes in the UFC and Henderson in PRIDE.

Are they on your P4P list?

You only mentioned Fedor and GSP, neither of them has done that feat, and each can make the weight a class down and up, respectively.

At least Anderson defeated a former lightheavy champ in Forrest Griffin, who by the way, has beaten Shogun, Rampage and Franklin, all Champions, past and present.

Stop being so biased against the great champion A. Silva, like it or not, he's clearly the best this sport has seen in its short 18 year history.
2/6/11 12:18 PM
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mugatu
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 He's the best, don't always like his antics, but he's the best
2/6/11 12:28 PM
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Ironclad
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 I'm another that's not a fan of Anderson Silva but he's up there as one of the best. If he beats GSP (should the fight actually happen) then I'll be ready to consider him as possibly  the GOAT. Styles make fights and I still believe someone with world class wrestling and excellent submission defense has the best chance of beating him. I plan on putting some serious cash on GSP should the fight ever happen and I'm not much of a gambler.

The sport is still very young though,and still evolving. Many of the best athletes go into more lucrative sports.  I think there is a good chance the greatest of all time now may not be the greatest of all time 20 years down the road.
2/6/11 12:29 PM
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MMA Monkey
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Kneeblock - 
KingstonHawke - He's not. Even if he beats GSP it wont make him the GOAT. Only way I can consider him that is if he moves up to 205 and wins that title.
Agreed, but he needs to beat more than Forrest and Irvin to do it.

If Anderson in his next four fights beat GSP, then moved up and beat Rampage, Thiago or Hammil, then winner of Jones/Shogun, then I'd be apt to say he's a serious threat for Fedor's GOAT tag.

As it is, Silva has benefited from looking awesome against the shallowest weight class.  He is simply leagues better than anyone at MW.  Vitor was the first guy he fought with real credentials who'd had success at a bunch of weight classes and it's not like he beat him from pillar to post.  He caught him with an unexpected front kick.  

I think with the talent he's displayed, Anderson may well be the best there is, but his competition doesn't compare to other pound for pound guys like GSP and Fedor.
  


First of all, are you actually undermining Anderson's victory because it was with a front kick? LMAO Do you know how difficult and spectacular that is? Do you realize that this kind of victory will never be repeated on an opponent of Vitor's caliber? It was a front kick knockout to VITOR BELFORT. Seriously, can't you realize how much MORE impressive this victory is than if it were a sloppy brawl? wow, some people...

Secondly, the welter weight division has Always been OVERRATED. Just because a bunch of fighters have streaks does not make them elite fighters. Think of it this way: Anderson Silva versus ANY of GSP's opponents... who do you think would win? Alves vs Anderson? LMAO. Koscheck versus ANderson? LMAO. Hardy vs Anderson? LMAO. GSP versus guys like Vitor, Sonnen, Henderson, Forrest.. GSP would have a Really difficult time against guys like those due to the size difference.

The slightly unique thing about the MW division is that there are a lot of SPECIALISTS. the best wrestlers: sonnen. the best jiujitsu players: maia. the best strikers: anderson and belfort. Consider this: Anderson has beaten the best of every style there is.

The Welter weight division has no specialists that are of the caliber of the fighters i just listed. WW is a bunch of boring human blankets that only look good based on records.
2/6/11 12:41 PM
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MarkRobinson
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If he beats GSP i would be glad to consider him

THE GOAT 2.

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