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Weapons UnderGround >> Home defense systems analysis


2/12/11 11:41 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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 Thinking about Home Defense systems (HD) and have some conclusions.

1. First and foremost, pick a good, safe place to live, if possible, like a gated community. It's not foolproof, but has definite advantages;

2. Layered system of alarms, lights, motion detectors, door locks and key fob remotes. if possible have an expert analyze your home and grounds for weak points.

3. Have dedicated gun placement around the house so that you're never more than, oh, 10 feet from a concealed handgun (HG). Though a shotgun is the best weapon, it has 'availability' problems at times. Consider concealed or open carry of your firearm inside the house, just like you have your wallet on you, a Ruger LCP with Corbon defensive ammo is plenty and you hardly know you have it on you. Practice drawing and shooting at the range using one bullet in the clip, then go again so that motion of drawing, racking and shooting is automatic.

4. Have some kind of effective, tested non-lethal backup methods. Sometimes the threat is high, but using lethal force can be a problem.

5. Train scenarios with your loved ones and make sure all occupants can shoot all firearms, even as young as 10 years old. Visit the range at least several times a month. Go over scenarios at home, in the car, in the store. Use a lot of 'what ifs', but again, no need to obsess.

To sum up: You want a system that allows some flexibility - i.e. when you forget the alarms or inadvertently leave a door unlocked there's another layer there, be it a dog, a motion detector that's always on, or your firearm, or just plain awareness.

You also want a system that is mostly transparent. You want to set it up and forget it. Life is too short to be 'worried' about home invasion, so you take care of it and don't obsess.

Thoughts?


4/12/11 2:41 PM
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Steamboat Bill
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I like your thoughts.

Some additional random thoughts:

Make your target (home) harder than your neighbor's (alarm sign, dogs, etc. that they don't have). Random bad guys will choose your neighbor over you.

For bad folks who still decide they want in your house, there are relatively cheap ways to reinforce your doors to prevent kick-ins, or at least delay them.

A Glock 27 in a Smart Carry is easily worn around the house without need for a gun belt, and provides 10 rounds of .40 which is more than enough to end many threats and at a minimum help you fight your way to your long guns (shotgun or carbine/rifle).

Stepping outside to check mail, check on kids in yard, etc. can easily separate you from stashed guns. It's always nice (and a lot safer) to have the gun on you.
4/14/11 6:24 AM
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Skpotamus
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Edited: 04/14/11 6:25 AM
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Good ideas, some random thoughts to think about:

Be careful training one specific way, The infamous Newhall shooting taught us that (officers in a shootout, one officer was found dead with spent brass in his hand from his range officers training mantra of picking up brass during a reload) http://www.cji.edu/papers/HankinsChris.pdf, instead, mix up the drills by sometimes firing more than one shot. Having multiple targets you sometimes engage. Have another person at the range call out what you need to do (figure 8 drill works pretty well here, have some barrels, cones, etc on the ground. walk along them in a figure 8 pattern, have your targets setup with random numbers on them, your partner calls out one or more numbers, you have to hit the numbers called out, if the number called isn't one out there, don't shoot).

If possible, get a brick home. Most handgun rounds will penetrate completely through multiple interior walls along with exterior walls. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=169328

http://www.claybrick.ca/pdf/cmri_bulletproof_project.pdf Here the brick walls tested stopped all but the most powerful rifle rounds. (eye opening to see the 22lr go through the vinyl sided exterior walls).

Using dogs is a great help, you have a moving alarm system that hears, see and can smell better than you. Add those with motion sensor lights and you get a good idea of where the threat(s) are coming from
4/16/11 8:36 AM
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phauna
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My number one rule is live in a country with virtually no violent crime or guns.
4/25/11 12:59 PM
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WidespreadPanic
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 One thing that has surprised me and has made me re-think H2H combatives is the care, repetition, drilling and understanding of the OODA loop by people like Gabe Suarez when they 'fight' with HGs.

Now, granted the 'fear' you feel when faced with the barrel of a .45 (or any gun) is going to be greater than when you are engaged H2H, but the surprise factor, the ability to act quickly is extremely important.

I watched a video of a guy who was murdered in (Brazil?) and he let the BG come up and pull the trigger, the gun misfires and the BG struggles with it and racks the slide and points again and shoots him. The guy and his companion were only 1-2 feet away - and they turned and looked at the BG but just stood there in disbelief. Now these were young guys, street-wise and they were rooted to the spot. I've also seen vids of old guys in jewelry stores when pulled on who fade away and swat at the weapon instantly. Maybe there's an advantage to doing MA and H2H stuff as a combat base to HG work.

I will say I've seen a lot of guys come to class as white belts and they can't make their body follow their commands, don't know left from right feet, etc., so it may be true - if you can't "fight", having a HG isn't going to help a lot. (obviously, holding a bead on a door barricaded in a room is a different scenario - that's sniping, not fighting)

$0.02




I don't yet know how to train that move from condition green to condition red in less than a second.
4/27/11 2:27 AM
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Skpotamus
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WidespreadPanic -  
I don't yet know how to train that move from condition green to condition red in less than a second.


Honestly, you probably won't. If you're in condition green, and shit goes down, you'll probably be down before you realize what's happening. What really happened is that you missed the cues that should have alerted you and gotten you ready to go. Darren Lauer has some interesting articles on the subject of cues of attack from both the ritualized combatant (wanting to square off and go) and the professional predator http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/Safety_Articles/Street%20101.pdf

http://www.personalprotectionsystems.ca/Safety_Articles.html

*note, I mean a general "you" as in anyone, myself included and not you specifically.
5/13/11 2:17 PM
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John Frankl
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"To sum up: You want a system that allows some flexibility - i.e. when you forget the alarms or inadvertently leave a door unlocked there's another layer there, be it a dog, a motion detector that's always on, or your firearm, or just plain awareness."

Uhm...so you're talking about having concealed handguns no more than 10 feet away throughout your entire house, and taking your 10 year old out to the shooting range several times per month and then forgetting to turn on the alarm or leaving the door unlocked?!? This is really, really weird.

"You also want a system that is mostly transparent. You want to set it up and forget it. Life is too short to be 'worried' about home invasion, so you take care of it and don't obsess.

Thoughts?"

Taking your 10 year old to the shooting range several times per month (unless you are getting ready to kill some yummy animals:) is already sort of obsessive. So is having guns hidden throughout your home. Not saying you should or shouldn't do this, that is a personal choice. But if you are that committed, how on earth are you going to forget to lock your friggin' front door!?!
5/19/11 6:23 PM
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lloydmtz
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"But if you are that committed, how on earth are you going to forget to lock your friggin' front door!?!"

Now thats funny!
8/16/11 5:48 PM
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BshMstr
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one thing i have in my home, is that whereever i have a weapon (handgun, OC, etc), i have a flashlight with it and a clock nearby. the flashlight for obvious illumination reasons, the clock to estimate time for court purposes.
12/7/12 7:02 PM
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supersaiyan
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if i got guns all over my house at every access point..i really aint too worried about a door being left unlocked lol
12/21/12 10:39 PM
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The Gimp
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I've thought a lot about this.

Pick a house in a dead-end street in a large subdivision of homes. Intruders typically prefer to hit houses with multiple escape routes.

If the intruder isn't prepared to come in THROUGH the walls of your home, you really only have to secure the exterior doors and windows to make your home burglar-proof, right?

DOORS

You'll want to remove your exterior doorframes and replace them with steel frames that are bolted directly into the framing of the house. Steel doors. Doorjamb Armor. Police locks; high-security deadbolts. And storm doors with their own locks.

Garage door needs to be the steel shutter kind.

WINDOWS

Several solutions here ranging from bars to steel shutters to protective film (my friend has the film and it stopped a guy with a baseball bat and a crowbar from getting in his window - the guy couldn't get through the film). Locks.

1/9/13 8:49 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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John Frankl - "To sum up: You want a system that allows some flexibility - i.e. when you forget the alarms or inadvertently leave a door unlocked there's another layer there, be it a dog, a motion detector that's always on, or your firearm, or just plain awareness."

Uhm...so you're talking about having concealed handguns no more than 10 feet away throughout your entire house, and taking your 10 year old out to the shooting range several times per month and then forgetting to turn on the alarm or leaving the door unlocked?!? This is really, really weird.

"You also want a system that is mostly transparent. You want to set it up and forget it. Life is too short to be 'worried' about home invasion, so you take care of it and don't obsess.

Thoughts?"

Taking your 10 year old to the shooting range several times per month (unless you are getting ready to kill some yummy animals:) is already sort of obsessive. So is having guns hidden throughout your home. Not saying you should or shouldn't do this, that is a personal choice. But if you are that committed, how on earth are you going to forget to lock your friggin' front door!?!

John,

I have done Real World testing of all of this. It is not 'I' who forgets to lock the front door, but my partner or some guest. It's problematic to go running all over the house checking doors. I'm just giving a 'failsafe' analysis of how to do 'layering'. Believe me, chaos happens, you WILL forget to lock the door one time. You WILL be separated from your firearm one time (or more).

Last night, I came into the house, wanting to rush to open the garage door to let my partner in, but at the same time I intended to go back to the front entry and plug in the outdoor Christmas spotlight. So I opened the door to the front, went in, but left the door ajar, and went to the kitchen door and opened it for my partner. She engaged me in getting groceries and I FORGOT I HAD left the front door ajar. Wow. But I had the front gate closed and locked (a layer). She walked by the front door and said 'oh, the front door is unlocked and OMG ajar'.

Forehead palm.

See? That's how it happens. You get distracted, the gap might be only for 2 minutes, but it happens.

I've gotten up in the middle of the night and found my obsessively locked front door standing wide open. NO IDEA how that happened. The alarm was turned off (by someone), but the front gate was still locked and closed.

All I can say is one or more layers will fail but it's unlikely that they will all fail.

HTH.
(PS I don't have a 10 yo but I did see a guy at the range with 4 of his young daughters and a whole buttload of rifles teaching them to shoot. Awesome.)
1/9/13 8:53 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Here's another 'funny one'.

We had a guest in from out of town and told them the alarm code. Made them repeat it, etc.

We go in the back and are taking a bath. The friend's wife comes to the door and he can't remember the code, so instead of cell phoning us, or knocking on the door, he just punches in the WRONG code (maybe he thought it was right) and let his wife in.

This resulted in the cops showing up and demanding to be let in (we're still in the bath). He LETS THE COPS INTO THE HOUSE AND THEY WANDER ALL AROUND THE HOUSE. HOLY HELL.

The cop comes to the bedroom door and it's locked (knob lock) but eventually believes the guy (HOLY heck) and goes away. 

Had it been a real hostage situation the cop just let us get killed. Had we anything illegal sitting out (we don't but if we did) and the cop saw it or, say saw a firearm on the bench being cleaned in the spare bedroom, he might have confiscated it.

So CHAOS can reign. I was livid that my friend's brother was such a dimwit that he caused all that and he caused a false alarm charge to be added to her bill.

Sheesh.

 

1/13/13 2:39 PM
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John Frankl
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Watch Dr. Strangelove.

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