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Weapons UnderGround >> Shootout with IPSC Grandmaster


1/19/13 11:49 AM
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MountainMedic
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WidespreadPanic - 
Demitrius Barbito -  In my opinion...

You have got to get to the point where they are shooting back at close to medium distances. 

This is often preceeded by disceptive dialoge and diceptive body language.

All the range work in the world doesn't get you "combat ready". It's kinda like debating in the mirror or with people who are not as intelligent as you. It's fun, semi-rewarding and impresses people BUT it does not prepare you for a "shootout" (which was what was stated in the title of the thread).

Only by the use of Simunition can we get to the point where we apply our firearms techniques under pressure and in realistic ways.

Years ago I did my Simunition Supervisor training (5 day course) at the Huntington Beach PD. The final day was spent in an abandoned mall playing out scenarios with real weapons converted to SIMS. I was on the "range program - non LEO" so it made sense that in the scenarios I played the armed bank robber with a few other non LEOs. 

Me and another guy come out of a jewelry store with a bag of goods and I had a Glock 19 and he had a Reminton 870. About 20 cops had surrounded us. We come out shooting. We both make it out and down the mall a ways. I hit two cops and he hit one. He gets hit after unloading his 870 and transitioning to his S and W. About 2 minutes later, after taking cover in an alcove, I make it farther shooting my way down even farther. Then after about 5 minutes of dialoge/shooting/cops circling me and me trying to move I hit another cop and then get hit in the stomach and face. They take me down and cuff me, secure the area and the the scenario is called.

At the end of the day we debrief the video of the whole thing. The realities of "what happens under body alarm condition, fear of life and death and persons under developed combat skills" becomes clear. Shooting is ONE THING. Fighting with firearms is ANOITHER THING ALTOGETHER. I went through about 13 rounds from a hi cap mag and hit maybe three people (considering I had about 20 different targets to choose from - and some being too over confident they could hide amongst the many and some just not using cover properly). But 20 were shooting at us and I was only hit 2 times with "20 shooting at me". The other guy was hit only once with 20 shooting at him. This was because "when your heart is in your throat and your sympathetic nervous system is freaking out performance (especially fine motor skills) go out the window. You fall to the level of your experience with the actual condidtions.

It was a very memorable experience.



 

One of the best posts on firearms anywhere on the forums. Bears repeating. Demi is the shiznitz. He does real tactical training with the pepper spray and other good stuff.

 


in academy they did the best they could to emulate high stress/real shoot scenarios, but it quickly became obvious that it was no where close to the real thing. it did bring to light the fact that some people can tolerate literally zero stress before thsy completely fall apart.... so i guess that was good.

1/19/13 8:00 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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This is why boxers are better than karate/kung fu/martial arts types practionioners "invariably". 

3/11/13 7:43 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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This clip (from 10 years ago) has some SIMS scenarios we did. At 3:16 some good stuff happens but all the way thru is some SIMS scenarios and training material.

 

 


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