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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Going to check out a Judo Dojo in about an hour...


2/15/11 11:52 AM
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PoWdA101
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So I am going to check out a Judo Dojo in about an hour to see what it is like. This place right next to my work called Denver Judo looks very legit and offers lunchtime classes so this could be awesome if I end up going regularly.

So, I have been doing BJJ about a year and a little boxing/kickboxing. Anything I should know before I go into this dojo for the first time?

FTR I am going to learn Judo to learn Judo, not to supplement my BJJ. I am going in with no attitude and really hope this place works out.

Also, the crazy part about all of this is that when I was 11-12 I lived next to this dude that taught me some judo. turns out the same guy doing this class in an hour is that guy so that is cool.

So yeah, just thought I would share that I am planning on giving this Judo thing a whirl, any tips for the rank beginner?
2/15/11 1:24 PM
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PoWdA101
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Okay so I lied. I am going to check it out tomorrow - no class on Tuesday. So any advice? Anyone?
2/15/11 6:08 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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Pay attention to learning breakfalling and if you get thrown then so be it.
2/15/11 9:15 PM
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judoblackbelt
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I remember your post a while back when I recommended Denver Judo. You are at a very good place to begin. Good instructors with a lot of competition experience. You are not new to grappling with your bjj background so you know that learning and practice is the requirement. YOu develop in judo by give and take whatever you are learning.
2/16/11 7:20 AM
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judo man
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Just relax and stick with ukemi. Ukemi can be boring and hard at first. Those reflex skills will protect you from serious injury.
2/16/11 10:58 AM
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PoWdA101
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judoblackbelt - I remember your post a while back when I recommended Denver Judo. You are at a very good place to begin. Good instructors with a lot of competition experience. You are not new to grappling with your bjj background so you know that learning and practice is the requirement. YOu develop in judo by give and take whatever you are learning.

Yes I do believe that you suggested Denver Judo. Thank you. It was insane to realize that I even knew the guy running the classes from my childhood as well. Anyway, thanks again.
2/16/11 10:58 AM
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PoWdA101
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judo man - Just relax and stick with ukemi. Ukemi can be boring and hard at first. Those reflex skills will protect you from serious injury.


What is Ukemi?
2/16/11 11:05 AM
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judo man
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Edited: 02/16/11 11:05 AM
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Ukemi=breakfalls.

http://judoinfo.com/ukemi.htm
2/16/11 2:01 PM
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PoWdA101
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So just got back. The first thing I noticed was how formal it is compared to BJJ. The warm ups and kneeling and use of Japanese words was very different. This is in no way a bad thing but very formal.

Anyway, I start on Monday. The place is a non-profit so it is only a $5 drop-in. The instructor also is going to give me (and my co-worker) a few weeks free to see if we like it. It was also great to see an old friend in the instructor.

Basically I watched them go through warm-ups and then watched two green belts practice a kata they are working on for their brown belt test. It was very different from what I am used to but it looks enjoyable.

judo man, the instructor was saying that when I come in Monday the green belts will be working kata again and I will be working break falls (Ukemi).

So, I am excited to get started. While BJJ is still my number one priority I am very excited to get this going. Actually a co-worker and I are going to speak with out supervisor in a little bit about extending our lunch to 1.5 hours on mondays and wednesdays just so we can start attending this class.

So it looks like my Judo journey begins and I am excited!
2/23/11 6:32 PM
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PoWdA101
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 So, update. 

Just went to my first Judo class and it was great. The instructor was great and had a new brown belt teach us some stuff and had a green belt show us some stuff as well. We worked break falls and he had us do one throw (he said that he always teached people one throw on the first day just so we enjoy the class). Overall I really liked it and it looks like Mondays and Wednesdays I will be doing the lunchtime class at Denver judo from here on. 

Also, at the end of class the sensei asked the students if they wanted to do some "neo waza?" I was not sure what he meant and I went and changed out and when I came back they were basically grappling BJJ style. I was wondering if anyone knows the proper way to get in and grapple with these guys or if it more of a thing for higher level belts. In BJJ we simply "go at it" whenever we want but Judo is much more formal.The instructor knows that I have been training in BJJ and I am wondering if he woudl be okay with me getting in there and "rolling" a little bit or not. I know the only way to know is to ask but I was wondering if there is certain etiquitte that I should be aware of before trying to jump in.

Also, I only watched them "rolling" for a minute or two but noticed that they seemed to give up the back early. Is this common or did I just catch them in bad form? Also, as far as I understand it the big differences between BJJ and Judo on the ground are pins and no leg locks. Is there anything else I need to know before grappling on the ground with these guys? 

Any tips? Advice? Anything I need to know? 


2/23/11 6:47 PM
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gbutts
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PoWdA101 -  So, update. 

Just went to my first Judo class and it was great. The instructor was great and had a new brown belt teach us some stuff and had a green belt show us some stuff as well. We worked break falls and he had us do one throw (he said that he always teached people one throw on the first day just so we enjoy the class). Overall I really liked it and it looks like Mondays and Wednesdays I will be doing the lunchtime class at Denver judo from here on. 

Also, at the end of class the sensei asked the students if they wanted to do some "neo waza?" I was not sure what he meant and I went and changed out and when I came back they were basically grappling BJJ style. I was wondering if anyone knows the proper way to get in and grapple with these guys or if it more of a thing for higher level belts. In BJJ we simply "go at it" whenever we want but Judo is much more formal.The instructor knows that I have been training in BJJ and I am wondering if he woudl be okay with me getting in there and "rolling" a little bit or not. I know the only way to know is to ask but I was wondering if there is certain etiquitte that I should be aware of before trying to jump in.

Also, I only watched them "rolling" for a minute or two but noticed that they seemed to give up the back early. Is this common or did I just catch them in bad form? Also, as far as I understand it the big differences between BJJ and Judo on the ground are pins and no leg locks. Is there anything else I need to know before grappling on the ground with these guys? 

Any tips? Advice? Anything I need to know? 

<br type="_moz" />


what is neo-waza? just ask to train. when you grapple don't change your ground game because someone is doing something wrong, take the good things and disregard the bad things. If it is an traditional judo school no wristlocks, ankle locks, neck cranks, and pressure points.
2/23/11 6:56 PM
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PoWdA101
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Not sure what neo-waza is. He probably said something completely different, hence the question mark. I am pretty sure that whatever he said meant to work on ground work. 
Basically I don't want to go in and armbar someone or triangle, or choke with the gi when it is not allowed in Judo. I am trying to figure out what the differences are and what is and what is not allowed when on the ground. 
2/23/11 7:05 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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PoWdA101 - Any tips? Advice? Anything I need to know?

Keep going. Learn the terminology(you will, it just takes time). Be cool.

As for the experience, it sounds like a good place and that you had fun(and will continue to).

"Newaza" = judo's groundwork. When and how it's practiced will vary by club, but in my experience clubs will generally devote part/half of a workout to newaza and it will tend to be heavy on holddowns/pins("osaekomi waza") and chokes("shime-waza")/joint(arm)locks("kansetsu-waza") from the "turtle" position. And to answer your question re: why people were turning their backs, it's a sport judo thing. Your time is limited on the ground is limited, so players who're not strong ground grapplers will turtle to a) avoid getting stuck in osaekomi and to b) stall until the referee calls "matte"(stop) to restart the match on the feet.

Other than learning ukemi(breakfalls) and getting better at throws, that kind of newaza will likely be the thing you have the most trouble getting used to as a bjjer. Meaning, while I wouldn't be afraid to use your bjj to your advantage(ie: taking the back/submitting people every chance you get), getting used to the rules/mindset will be hard at first because you're probably already thinking stuff like turtling will lead bad habits, getting tapped out, etc. If I were you I'd try hard to keep an open mind and not think about newaza as it applies to bjj just yet, because there's a lot you can learn...like how to lay heavy that it makes the 'smash' game in bjj seem like a joke, tricky attacks from the rear mount(sweeps/turnovers and armlocks/chokes), and even how to be tough to flatten out/submit from the turtle position.

Regardless, welcome to judo and good luck!
2/23/11 7:06 PM
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gbutts
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PoWdA101 - Not sure what neo-waza is. He probably said something completely different, hence the question mark. I am pretty sure that whatever he said meant to work on ground work. 
Basically I don't want to go in and armbar someone or triangle, or choke with the gi when it is not allowed in Judo. I am trying to figure out what the differences are and what is and what is not allowed when on the ground. 


all those things you metion are allowed.
Again, if it is an traditional judo school no wristlocks, ankle locks, neck cranks, and pressure points. Don't hold back your ground game, alot of judo people are just as good as bjj people on tghe mat.
2/23/11 7:12 PM
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gbutts
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Missing Glove Tape - 
PoWdA101 - Any tips? Advice? Anything I need to know?

Keep going. Learn the terminology(you will, it just takes time). Be cool.

As for the experience, it sounds like a good place and that you had fun(and will continue to).

"Newaza" = judo's groundwork. When and how it's practiced will vary by club, but in my experience clubs will generally devote part/half of a workout to newaza and it will tend to be heavy on holddowns/pins("osaekomi waza") and chokes("shime-waza")/joint(arm)locks("kansetsu-waza") from the "turtle" position. And to answer your question re: why people were turning their backs, it's a sport judo thing. Your time is limited on the ground is limited, so players who're not strong ground grapplers will turtle to a) avoid getting stuck in osaekomi and to b) stall until the referee calls "matte"(stop) to restart the match on the feet.

Other than learning ukemi(breakfalls) and getting better at throws, that kind of newaza will likely be the thing you have the most trouble getting used to as a bjjer. Meaning, while I wouldn't be afraid to use your bjj to your advantage(ie: taking the back/submitting people every chance you get), getting used to the rules/mindset will be hard at first because you're probably already thinking stuff like turtling will lead bad habits, getting tapped out, etc. If I were you I'd try hard to keep an open mind and not think about newaza as it applies to bjj just yet, because there's a lot you can learn...like how to lay heavy that it makes the 'smash' game in bjj seem like a joke, tricky attacks from the rear mount(sweeps/turnovers and armlocks/chokes), and even how to be tough to flatten out/submit from the turtle position.

Regardless, welcome to judo and good luck!


100% agree and it will also speed up your matwork
2/23/11 7:16 PM
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PoWdA101
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Edited: 02/23/11 7:16 PM
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 Great post and it answered a lot!

I am absoloutley training Judo for Judo, not just to supplement my BJJ (although I am sure the throws are going to be awesome in compeition). I was trying my hardest to not think of BJJ application and to keep an open mind and I think I did a good job.

Thanks again for the post, I think I am going to try and get in on the newaza next chance I get. 


Also, one more question... The instructor said that arm bars are not taught until brown belt. Do you think they will look down on a white belt going for an arm bar during newaza with say, green and brown belts?


 
2/23/11 7:22 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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PoWdA101 - Also, one more question... The instructor said that arm bars are not taught until brown belt. Do you think they will look down on a white belt going for an arm bar during newaza with say, green and brown belts?

Depends. I would talk to the instructor first to make sure he knows your background re: bjj/submissions vs. being a complete noob who's going to hurt people. He'll probably want a chance to observe you/feel you out for a couple of practices just to be sure. And if not, then those are the breaks man and you either look at it as an opportunity to develop your holddowns/chokes or look for a less strict/traditional club.
2/24/11 7:20 AM
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judoblackbelt
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If you go out there and arm bar green belt/injure one what does that prove/reflect on you? I do it all the time but it is a teaching moment and never injure them. Even brown belts who are much more aggressive. Do you have the finesse to apply techniques without hurting someone? I would focus more on pins/turtle attacks/attacks when uke flattens on the ground. This is where your ground game will improve for judo. Time is limited on the ground so you have to switch attacks if your initial one gets stalled. If I end up in bottom guard my goal is to try a turnover for a pin, if this fails I go for an arm bar setup of some sorts. Never a choke. I am giving up good advice.
2/24/11 7:49 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Excellent advice from FB, couldn't have said it any better.
2/24/11 11:40 AM
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PoWdA101
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 Thanks for the input guys. And I would never just jump in and start crushing people, I don't do that in BJJ and would not do it in Judo. I was more concerned with the etiquitte and rule differences. 

I keep hearing that time on the ground is limited, what does that mean?
2/25/11 3:53 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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why not just go to www.intljudo.com and read the rulebook... then ask specific questions if you have them...

or, use the search option. this has been discussed ad nauseum.
2/25/11 11:11 AM
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PoWdA101
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JoshuaResnick - why not just go to www.intljudo.com and read the rulebook... then ask specific questions if you have them...

or, use the search option. this has been discussed ad nauseum.

 Thanks for the link. And I did look through the first 2/3 pages and saw nothing, figured the forum could use a new subject.
2/25/11 6:54 PM
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JoshuaResnick
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this is true....
2/25/11 7:34 PM
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CyborgRoyce
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Don't worry dude, you'll learn all the rules eventually. I learnt them via doing things and then getting told by seniors that it's illegal. You might find that Judo newaza/groundwork is more aggressive (since in Judo comps you only get a short timeframe to work after it hits the ground) but you should be able to handle yourself fine with your BJJ background. Take time to learn the pins and pin escapes, they'll benefit you greatly.

And don't mind the turtle, it's a silly Judo technicality

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