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Cigars, Beer & Poker Ground >> The go and go.


2/18/11 2:51 PM
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wreckker
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 Both hands suck balls^^^^

 the only value 9-5 would have over j-5 really is post flop the abiltity to flop a straight  in some deepstack play scenario. which is a small chance

When your chance of getting called is fairly high it is much better to shove with best hand you can wait for.

So the best math hand is whats most important.

In tournies there are going to be lots of situations when you are aginst tight players or players that have stacks that you will seriously hurt..  then CARD VAlUE goes WAY down and spots with HIGH fold equity go up


The hand I shoved on and probably the hand Tony shoving with j-5 is based on having A LOT of FOLD equity.

Tony because of tight players and me because changing a guys stack from 21 to 12 blinds 10 away from the money will make most even  good players range tighten up alot.

These are the kind of spots you have to identify and take advantage of and read correctly to go deep in tournies.

The interesting dynamic of tournies makes the importance of card values, bet sizing, fold equity from a bet.

can consrtantly change which one is most important.

The correct math + or - EV play is not always the right one too.

Example is if you are deepstacked and have a BIG skill edge over your oppents dont even put your tourney on the line with a 60-40 edge .why would you?

Another case may be if you are one of the worst players at a tough table then play a big pot with the worst of it say 40-60.

I n cash games take your small edges if you like all the time...but in atourney if you are good especially it can be a mistake to play every small +  ev edge







2/18/11 3:23 PM
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andre
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I agree with everything you wrote, wrecker. I think people are calling much lighter than before and the value of picking up a couple of BBs is outweighed by the risk of elimination. Wait for a reasonable hand, even if it means shoving into the deep stacks or from earlier position and risk your tournament life with a better hand for a full double up rather than just a couple of bbs. I think shoving atc is outdated because people have widened their calling ranges.
2/18/11 4:00 PM
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wreckker
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 People are calling lighter UNLESS they have a clue and calling light will mess up their stack.
2/18/11 4:47 PM
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andre
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Yeah, I'm not saying that there arent opportunities to steal, but the jist of bond18's article was that it's automatic.
3/13/11 9:43 AM
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SiftMyMind
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Edited: 03/13/11 9:45 AM
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3/13/11 9:44 AM
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SiftMyMind
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Edited: 03/13/11 9:59 AM
Member Since: 8/28/07
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wreckker - Both hands suck balls^^^^

the only value 9-5 would have over j-5 really is post flop the abiltity to flop a straight in some deepstack play scenario. which is a small chance

When your chance of getting called is fairly high it is much better to shove with best hand you can wait for.

So the best math hand is whats most important.

In tournies there are going to be lots of situations when you are aginst tight players or players that have stacks that you will seriously hurt.. then CARD VAlUE goes WAY down and spots with HIGH fold equity go up




I agree wreckker

My understanding of the dynamics is as follows:

Imagine a short-handed game (i.e., final stage of a mini MTT), where stealing the blinds represents a decent payoff.
Let's say the hero (in late position) has a stack-size that WILL do serious damage to any other player left to act.
Let's also say that the action is folded to the hero.

My understanding of the concept is that what cards the hero is holding is only a small component of all that should factor into what actions the hero should take.

The cards the hero holds are indeed a weapon. However, very important is the hero's SIZABLE stack size and the hero's position (i.e., first to act with only a few players left). If the hero chooses to go all-in, then the HERO’S position and the HERO’S stack and the OPPONENT’S cards are also important as are the cards the hero holds.

So, basically, it’s a large bet that the opponent DOESN’T have a real good hand (which is most of the time).


3/13/11 10:01 AM
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SiftMyMind
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Edited: 03/13/11 10:07 AM
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Also, depends on one's read on whether the opponent tends to be tight or loose.

I've been used to playing my hands, so it kills me to go all in with my hard-earned chips using this concept with marginal hands.

However, NOT doing it is hurting my game.


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