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4/28/11 2:49 PM
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Hypnos
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^^^ sorry man. I took the comical part wrong. I thought you meant something else. Phone Post
4/28/11 4:31 PM
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reverend john
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Grakman -  The Bible and Poverty

Grakman

IMHO that is a horrible justification for materialism. To see a much better biblical understanding of wealth I suggest make poverty personal by ash barker or sabbath economics by ched myers. The problem with what you shares is it's a justification of modern life yet when we actually follow Jesus we find the truth in what he said even in our day

Rev
4/28/11 4:40 PM
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Grakman
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reverend john - 
Grakman -  The Bible and Poverty

Grakman

IMHO that is a horrible justification for materialism. To see a much better biblical understanding of wealth I suggest make poverty personal by ash barker or sabbath economics by ched myers. The problem with what you shares is it's a justification of modern life yet when we actually follow Jesus we find the truth in what he said even in our day

Rev

 Is this the Ash Barker you're referring to rev?

Urban Neighbors of Hope
4/28/11 4:46 PM
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reverend john
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That's the guy personal friend of mine

Rev
4/28/11 4:53 PM
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reverend john
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I was actually part of the pastoral support team for their Melbourne team

Rev
4/28/11 5:38 PM
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Grakman
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Looks like a great program rev, we really have to admire those who go out and set up those communities and live it out like you do.

I read through a lot of the site, it looks like they are affiliated with the Churches of Christ Missions ( if I read it right?) How would programs like these get off the ground without people back home giving money to the church? :-/  And rev, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or put down their endeavor in anyway. I'm looking at this in a 'what if' scenario: what if all Christians decided to live among the poor and take vows of poverty. How would we be of any help to anyone?
4/28/11 5:48 PM
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reverend john
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I don't get any donations from anyone I work and share my money property and home with others. Something that if everyone did there would be no poverty

As to UNOH one of the things I don't like about the program is it's requirement to raise full time support. If you could raise your own living wage you could be an example of working and sharing and all money coming in could be used for programs

This is not always possible but preferable

Rev
4/28/11 5:48 PM
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reverend john
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Edited: 04/28/11 7:04 PM
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Sorry for the double post but perhaps I can restate things by allowing the UNOH workers to earn their wage through employment they can do what I said before

Rev
4/28/11 9:51 PM
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PastorJosh
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Back to the Original Post, following Jesus means to forsake sin, take up your cross, pursue holiness, and let the "good works" flow out of that. The good works are secondary and tertiary, not primary. To believe and follow Christ is to identify with him. You're an enemy of the world, an outcast, a rebel to a sin-soaked world, yet you're sold out to spread the message of Christ. It is a vehement hatred of sin and a passionate pursuit of holiness because of the magnitude of grace that has been shown to you. it is dying to self, the flesh, the world and living for Christ. Only for him. Phone Post
4/29/11 1:18 PM
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Grakman
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PastorJosh -  Back to the Original Post, following Jesus means to forsake sin, take up your cross, pursue holiness, and let the "good works" flow out of that. The good works are secondary and tertiary, not primary. To believe and follow Christ is to identify with him. You're an enemy of the world, an outcast, a rebel to a sin-soaked world, yet you're sold out to spread the message of Christ. It is a vehement hatred of sin and a passionate pursuit of holiness because of the magnitude of grace that has been shown to you. it is dying to self, the flesh, the world and living for Christ. Only for him. Phone Post

 Sound great, can you give some specific examples of how this should play out in one's daily life?
4/29/11 3:48 PM
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reverend john
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The only way to live for christ is to live for others especially the least of these

And it is interesting to me how we put believe first action second when the disciples did exactly the opposite

Rev
4/29/11 5:00 PM
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zealot66
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 Hey, as long as you Believe the Right thing .........
4/29/11 11:19 PM
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Ridgeback
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reverend john - The only way to live for christ is to live for others especially the least of these

And it is interesting to me how we put believe first action second when the disciples did exactly the opposite

Rev

 Kind of like sitting around dicussing the best way to submit an opponent on the mat instead of getting on the mat and breaking a sweat and then figuring out how to do it.
4/30/11 10:46 AM
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zealot66
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 That article on poverty did nothing for me. I have nothing against wealth. I wouldnt mind having some myself. I think it depends on what you do with it. I do think alot of people do a trade off with God when they get money. They are superstitious about being poor again, so they 'tithe' and give to charity out of superstition. But they make sure they have their lexus's and tailored suits. I know certain careers demand you dress a certain way. Even with my job in the goverment, 'professionalism' is a category that you get evaluated on and that includes your appearance.

Me, I would prefer a BMW. I think the Germans are brilliant car engineers. Probably one of the safest cars too. But my 85 chevy pickup is my beamer for now and well, my 96 camry is my lexus. almost 200k on it and runs like a charm.
5/9/11 8:31 AM
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Grakman
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 ttt
5/20/11 12:55 PM
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Dan O'Connell
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ttt

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