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JKD UnderGround >> Trapping vid


3/6/11 3:38 PM
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Joe Maffei
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Hey guys sorry about the quality of this vid, the audio sucks, the lighting sucks, LOL but some of the guys wanted to see what I mean by trapping in more of an MMA setting
It shouldn't bore you to long it's like 4 minutes.

sorry I didn’t have time to do anything better…:-(
3/6/11 3:39 PM
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Joe Maffei
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Edited: 03/06/11 3:40 PM
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www.youtube.com/watch  
3/7/11 1:37 AM
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Siciliano
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I like it!!!
3/8/11 9:09 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Siciliano glad you like it, next time you clinch give it a try. Like with anything. at first you will miss more then you hit then you will start increasing your % of success the better you get.

cprevost and I were discussing this concept on another thread and I said it was like jit's ya got to see it to believe it, but really ya have to do it to someone to really internally believe it.

Where's WP??? where are you bro, I did this little vid for you my brother.

I hope some of you other guys try this trap, I gave 3 examples that most should be familiar with on how it can be used in grappling. Let me know how you made out.
3/8/11 10:01 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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 Thanks for the video, Joe. Yes it's a bit hard to see but it does explain your concept of the three-parts to a trap.

I would analyze such a move like this:

1. Is it attribute-based? IOW, does it require strength or could a female do it?
2. Is it in the right range for application?
3. Is it trumped by other applications in the same range?
4. Is there a clear objective?
5. Does it flow into the next range smoothly and set up a submission?
6. Does it exploit a weakness or a reaction?
7. Is it set up so that the opponent falls into the 'trap'?
8. What body system (respiration, sensory, locomotion) does it attack?
9. How can I generalize it or conceptualize it?
10. What base training is required to support it?
11. Can it incorporate a reaction, such as the flinch or the duck?
12. How is it countered?

HTH. Again, thanks for taking the time to video it.

3/8/11 10:55 PM
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nowaydo
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ttt
3/9/11 3:20 AM
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Nasz
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Edited: 03/10/11 2:43 AM
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Well to me thats not trapping. Its a clinching game. Its about feeling where the power is and making space to swim in with your arms or to hit with fist or knees or do a throw. Its not trapping...Or am i missing the point you R making with this video.
3/9/11 9:47 AM
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Joe Maffei
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WP. I just wanted to get clean powerful elbows to the face ...LOL .... I wasn't even close to thinking that deep

I think the easiest way to analyze it is to just clinch up and try it. Keep it wicked simple, primitive.

After, if it works on paper all the better. And thanks for taking out the time to check it out..


Nasz well yeah bro, you are missing the point.
As I said in the trapping thread,
"IMHO Most of the JKD community has it backwards. Trapping is very valuable, but not used in its traditional manner. If you don't re-evaluate how you interpreter trapping you will be just another JKD guy trying to do a Pak Sao against a beginner MMA guy and get dumped on your head. just saying....:-)"

Nowaydo, what is up my brother....:-)
3/9/11 6:22 PM
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cprevost
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I think the term is too loaded now to use in any kind of way. Better to call it clinch... What you are doing in the video is exactly what we do at the gym in our clinch class. We never use the term trapping. Much of the vocab we use comes from wrestling because that's where the skills sets derive from. No sense in using wing chun terminology to describe what is effectively good wrestling.
3/10/11 2:50 AM
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Nasz
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Edited: 03/10/11 3:05 AM
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"It is not a daily increase, but a daily decrease. Hack away at the inessentials."
— Bruce Lee
3/10/11 3:02 AM
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Nasz
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Joe Maffei - Nasz well yeah bro, you are missing the point.
As I said in the trapping thread,
"IMHO Most of the JKD community has it backwards. Trapping is very valuable, but not used in its traditional manner. If you don't re-evaluate how you interpreter trapping you will be just another JKD guy trying to do a Pak Sao against a beginner MMA guy and get dumped on your head. just saying....:-)"

Nowaydo, what is up my brother....:-)


Well like I said I dont believe in trapping as it is teached in Wing Chun or how its been showed on many JKD videos on several tubes. To me there is no trapping. Just fight, Think of Hitting. Have a good defence and have great enterings, interception defence or counters to damage. You can stick to somebody and clinch and do several things from there. YES! doing that paksao and think of trapping will make you get hit on your nose big time. Thats very true.
But seeing the video you posted. Saying its a good video about the clinching game.

Power Bro...
3/10/11 4:58 AM
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BigSifu
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 This makes sense to me. I came up PFS/JKD and we always clinched-elbow/knee/headbutt and called it "trapping range". But we still did the old reference point drills. Nowadays I do pummeling and clinch fighting. Good stuff,I agree 100%.
3/10/11 9:53 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Cprevost I don't use the term relating to Wing Chun at all. The reason I use the term Trapping comes literally from the traps I use when I hunt animals "Traps" and the mechanics that make those traps work, in this case a mouse trap ( lever, spring, and a smasher) was used scientifically proficient. How do you know it works? .....It catches mice.....:-)


In this vid, I also choose 3 techniques that I know are already used in clinch work to show that the mechanism has already been proven. How do we know? because the techniques work. So now grapplers and wrestlers can see we are on the same page because my 3 techniques and their ( the grapplers) 3 techniques adhere to the same mechanism to make the technique work.

So from here on in other trapping concepts introduced would have to feel and work in consistency with the 3 examples already shown on this short vid to make sense.

Here is another example: of the same mouse trap concept using a lever, spring and smasher, this I have not seen in other clinch work, just to show how the concept works, same mechanism same trap just set in a different place.

Everyone has had a guillotine on someone, and for what ever reason the guys head popped out and he escaped. ( I have even had my own face smashed before from his head springing out like a cork and that sucks..... don't say that never happened...LOL) You just missed the opportunity to use the mouse trap. In essence with the guillotine your armpit became the lever, his neck became the spring, all you needed was a smasher and he would have been caught in the trap when his head sprang out.
I catch a ton of people with this one.

It's all in how you see it. This is only one trap that can be used all over the place. I have made other traps that are different but adhere to the same principles and mechanics to work in grappling range.

Everyone please don't take my word for anything, just try the concept it sells itself.

btw this concept was around way before Bruce came along.
3/10/11 9:02 PM
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nowaydo
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I'm good, Joe!
3/10/11 9:49 PM
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lloydmtz
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A "JKD" forum that tends to relegate the reason for the forum to something other then a discussion of the Art that the forum is named after.
3/11/11 3:25 AM
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John Frankl
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Yes, a name that the movie actor who coined it told you not to fuss over.
3/11/11 9:35 AM
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Joe Maffei
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lloydmtz: ...No No No!!! you don't want to go down that road. First this is a training forum "foremost", we use concepts of JKD in our training. This vid is about training, the main reason for the forum.

You think I am disrespecting Bruce/JKD why? for experimenting? for using no way as way? for absorbing what works?

I am not a JKD traditionalist.

If you want to discuss JKD in terms of, timing, rhythm, distancing, gravity, rotation, centrifugal force, pressure, leverage, angles etc I am all ears. If you want to talk about abstract philosophy, respect, honor which has it's place but you might want to start a new thread :-)


Thoughts???
3/11/11 9:57 AM
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lloydmtz
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Joe,

No worries. This is your thread and I respect that and I am no JKD Martyr either but I'm just stating the obvious.

And as far as fussing over it is concerned this is the JKD forum is it not? Sorry but I didn't give the forum its name.

So it's just a "JKD" forum and I'll stop "fussing" over it.
3/11/11 7:11 PM
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Nasz
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Edited: 03/11/11 7:17 PM
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"If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done."
— Bruce Lee
3/11/11 7:11 PM
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Nasz
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Edited: 03/11/11 7:14 PM
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Yes this is a JKD forum. Meaning you can discuss all kind of techniques from every style, system, phylosophy, believe and try to fit you. Yes, Absorb what is usefull, Reject whats useless. Nothing more....

There s no fuss about it.

I have a nice technique you peeps could try. If you have someone in a standing guillotine choke like you said. A nice technique you can practice and make it work is fall down to the ground in a nice motion and as soon you hit the ground still holding the guillotine choke twist your body so your oppenent ends on his back and you sit in sidecontrol still holding the guillotine. Now you can crank the neck.

Also what you can do before going to the ground. Get your arm out of the choke and slip it from the back of the neck under his armpit. Now when you go the ground and twist your body and your opponent ends on his back you can lift your body up while you are still holding your arm in the same position as you were standing. Now lifting your body up, you can crank his neck heavily.

This is a nice move you can do fast and not wanting to sit there fighting a groundgame.

Hope you can follow me as my english is not my first language..Peace
3/11/11 7:18 PM
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Nasz
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"If you spend too much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done."
— Bruce Lee
3/17/11 11:55 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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JKD was all about finding the 'keys to the kingdom'.

Not many people realize that BL was working from a framework that he had developed, a lattice upon which he could hang the concepts he was talking about and get the big picture.

He used it to generalize from the specific to the broad, however, he didn't take it far enough. He didn't really believe his own conclusions, one of which was that there was a range which trumped trapping, something he had invested a lot of time in. He was overly concerned about 'sensitivity' in the outer ranges, but failed to realize that in grappling range you have complete sensitivity - you're always in contact.

BL had tremendous speed off the blocks, so he wanted to find a way to exploit that. He broke speed down into its components and made himself faster, he studied various 'tells' that showed what an opponent was planning to do.

So for him, moving into the grappling range, he was worried that guys with greater strength could 'handle' him just as Gene Lebell did, nullifying his speed advantage. I think had he gotten the courage to investigate grappling more he'd have found a lot to like. He just didn't know the delivery system (guard and mount) so he didn't really know how to effectively practice grappling.

3/17/11 2:58 PM
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BigSifu
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 A lot of this and the "Who is JKD" threads are almost over my head. Having said that,I'm finding a lot to agree with here. Joe and WP-keep talking,I'm listening...
3/18/11 3:25 AM
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markijkd
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Joe,

I liked it! Trapping is to ensnare... Looks good...

M...
3/18/11 10:03 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Edited: 03/18/11 10:03 AM
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We have had a lot of views on this vid but has anyone tried this yet. Everything looks good on paper but you have to be able to do it live to really get it.

Grab someone clinch up, start working for position, add some strikes do what you always do then insert the mouse trap.

If you guys are having trouble with the timing or coordination, just ask me ...K?

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