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5/26/11 5:29 PM
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Spc Lee Lohff
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Yes, but this isn't necessarily illustrative for two reasons:

1) The numbers reported to US News and World Report for full time employment are not necessarily LEGAL full time employment. A barista at starbucks is just as employed as an associate at Skadden. Seriously, the US News blurb reflects this.

2) The increase in employment weighting wasn't so great that it would skew numbers as greatly as you seem to think.
5/26/11 5:48 PM
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419
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Do you know why Toledo has dropped 60 spots?
6/16/11 7:15 PM
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pm1964
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Despite the so-called increase employment is supposed to have, I believe that "professor opinion" still is the largest factor that goes into the USNWR rankings.
6/17/11 1:39 AM
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salyer36
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Edited: 06/17/11 1:40 AM
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These ranking are utter nonsense. I went to a state school that costs literally 1/3 of a private school that is about 2 miles away. The job placement is the same, if not better, at my school.

This dumb ranking still ranks the private school 20 steps above mine. Try 45K in debt vs. 120k in debt for similar job prospects and explain to me how that school is better.
6/17/11 9:17 AM
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419
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I've always suspected my professors hated me.
6/17/11 11:43 AM
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pm1964
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Where did you go to undergrad?
6/19/11 12:47 PM
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Spc Lee Lohff
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The rankings are nonsense, I agree. All they are good for is a general idea of where schools sit. Movement within tiers is generally useless as an indicator of a school's placement power into the job market. When you think about it, is there anything else that matters for a professional school?

Still, the rankings allow for a decent, if imperfect, means of determining which school is best for you. YHS>CCN>rest of T14> everybody else. When I am asked by undergrads what should weigh into their decision to practice I give this answer:

Cost-> Rank=Region you want to practice in-> pretty much everything else (considering rank factors in employment numbers.) Specialty rankings are horrible metrics for determination about where to attend unless all else is equal, i.e. if a kid wants to be a litigator, he would be nuts to attend Stetson over Cornell because of Stetson's consistently high trial ad rankings.

As to why Toledo has dropped in rankings: I am not sure, man. As another poster stated earlier, peer assessment scores are weighted highest, and you couple that with selectivity, LSAT and GPA to get a substantial portion of the ranking. Perhaps Toledo's median GPA and LSAT score remained stagnant while other schools raised there scores. Without the hard data, I wouldn't be able to tell you.
6/20/11 12:08 PM
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HaMMerHouseFAN
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They dropped a few years ago because David Harris left UT to teach at Pittsburg

6/20/11 2:06 PM
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419
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Edited: 06/21/11 12:12 PM
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7/7/11 10:48 AM
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419
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While placement has more to do with the economy than ranking, I'd still prefer my school to be in the top 100.
7/28/11 4:36 PM
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StrictScrutiny
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Spc Lee Lohff - Ask this year's largest drop: St. Johns and Hawaii. Again, there is little data which shows that such movement in the rankings of law schools outside Tier 1 has any impact on job placement.


Lee,

I don't think Hawaii dropped that much this year. The 2011 rankings have them at #95, which is lower than before but still in tier-2.
8/4/11 9:58 PM
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Spc Lee Lohff
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http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2011/03/us-news-law-school-rankings-are-out.html


This article is the source for my claim, strict. St. Johns and Hawaii had the largest drop. I don't think it will do much harm to either school.
8/12/11 8:53 PM
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StrictScrutiny
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Spc Lee Lohff - http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2011/03/us-news-law-school-rankings-are-out.html


This article is the source for my claim, strict. St. Johns and Hawaii had the largest drop. I don't think it will do much harm to either school.


I think we're both right. Hawaii dropped the most, going from #72 to #95 but is still in tier-2. I think I misread what you wrote. Cheers.
8/13/11 10:53 AM
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419
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23 spots was the biggest drop?

Toledo has dropped at least sixty spots over the past three years... and maybe more (we're currently unranked).
8/14/11 9:48 PM
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StrictScrutiny
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419 - 23 spots was the biggest drop?

Toledo has dropped at least sixty spots over the past three years... and maybe more (we're currently unranked).


Ouch. Is there a story behind why your school dropped so much in the rankings?
8/14/11 10:42 PM
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419
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Edited: 03/15/12 12:07 PM
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.
3/14/12 1:11 PM
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Update: Toledo is ranked 129.
3/15/12 12:08 PM
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419
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Toledo dropped because the school was using the part-time program to manipulate the numbers, the university was taking a larger percentage of overhead, and a few professors left. The new dean has been somewhat successful improving the ranking.
3/15/12 3:39 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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Pretty much everyone was manipulating the part-time exceptions, which is why U.S. News axed them. Did Toledo keep their part-time program? If they did, that in itslef could explain their drop a year or two ago.

Some schools dropped their part-time programs completely, and from what I've seen, it's helped most of them climb the ranks.
3/16/12 9:03 AM
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Fake Pie
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Odd, GULC is famous for their shitty, backdoor part-time program (apologies to some night school friends of mine :)).

I wonder what they did about it.
3/16/12 11:27 AM
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419
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Toledo started as a night school, and should keep that program. Manipulating the numbers wasn't the only factor; the university was taking a larger amount of overhead and a few big-time professors left (and weren't adequately replaced).
3/16/12 1:04 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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One of the tactics I saw at a school I was working as an administrator was to either pressure students with low GPAs into going part-time, or to administratively require students with poor GPAs to go part-time. Once there, the exception would take place and the school could report just the full-time students' GPA.

It worked well because even if you have group B of poor performers, then whatever the A curve for group B is, they will be guaranteed a GPA boost, so when they re-enter the full-time population they are pretty much guaranteed to be around a 3.0. So the low end of your reporting group is almost always a 2.8 ish or higher. And in the mean time, the school wouldn't have to report their lower GPAs because they are in the part-time group, giving the school an even higher median GPA.
3/16/12 1:08 PM
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WikiTheWalrus
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The funny thing is that a few students figured out what the school was doing and dropped to part-time status to boost their GPAs, which worked really well.

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