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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Me against a good wrestler


3/30/11 1:38 PM
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raleigh
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgNcLXti4wk&feature=related


I never claimed to be good at judo, but I wondered what the judo forum thinks of this match? The guy would drop so low, I believe he got second place, so, ehhh....
3/30/11 1:39 PM
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raleigh
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my posture is like that bc I wanted to defend the shoot.
3/30/11 1:41 PM
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raleigh
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the action is pretty bad standing reviewing this. lol
3/30/11 2:46 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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Edited: 03/30/11 2:52 PM
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Thoughts? You didn't really do anything in terms of gripfighting or footwork/kuzushi. How do you expect to defend the shoot when you're giving him any/all grips he wants?

The over back grip is okay if you're gonna off-balance your opponent and throw something like uchi-mata, or even to transition into tan-otoshi off of the 2 on 1. But just to take it because of his low posture, knowing you're not going to defend the takedown? You're much better off with a strong collar grip, driving your forearm/elbow in to give you a chance to defend and counter, or at least time enough to sprawl.

The sleeve/wrist grip on the opposite side isn't helping you either, because there's really no leverage to off-balance him in such a low crouch. I'd go higher up on the elbow/triceps, or even take an underhook to force him to raise his posture and open up opportinities for footsweeps, or even a sacrifice throw.

Nevertheless, thanks for sharing. You did your best against a tough opponent and certainly didn't embarass yourself. Congrats!
3/30/11 3:34 PM
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Spartan79
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^ good post! Or in other words u tryed and fucked up lol. Only joking good effort! Phone Post
3/30/11 4:56 PM
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judoblackbelt
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In this situation what I have seen that is effective is x-grip sumi gaeshi against this bent over low stance. low probability of getting countered and if it doesn't score 2 points you end up in bottom guard. by x-grip I mean x-grip their lead hand and pull this across, reach over the shoulder to take the back grip and then sumi gaeshi to the side of your over the shoulder grip. Another is kouchi gari where you snap up with your (normal grip, no x grip) to pull them forward, they react and then take them backwards with kouchi gari. Very safe throw from this position. You have to be good at these those and practice them.
3/30/11 5:07 PM
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raleigh
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yeah guys, I posted this impulsively, then watched it, and thought, oh man I am gonna get flamed on this

either way, they guy was a great wrestler with a low good base, you guys gave some good advice too, thanks!
3/30/11 5:45 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Our first idea is to help not criticize. That low style is exactly what the Mongolian Naidan won the 2008 Olympics 100K with. He beat his first fight Keiji Suzuki one the best players from Japan. So it does pose problems.
3/30/11 6:26 PM
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raleigh
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i didn't take any of it in a bad way, I think there are some good tips, I am admitting that my performance against his wrestling was pretty weak, it took me posting it here to really realize that.
3/30/11 6:36 PM
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Oldboy
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Edited: 03/31/11 3:24 PM
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I like using the snap down to front headlock against guys that insist on a very low, bent over stance. From there you've got all the different Darce options to work off of.

Also I'm a big fan of over the back/shoulder belt grips and throwing with O Soto Gari or Harai Goshi. You have to make sure you don't hesitate and keep them controlled when you have that grip though, otherwise they can spin around and take your back.

Keep at it man, you only get better by getting in there and fighting! Thanks for sharing!
3/30/11 6:40 PM
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Missing Glove Tape
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This isn't the UG/OG or even the bjj subforum. No one is going to flame you simply for posting competition footage. You obviously did your best, and without talking shit or making excuses no less. So, the result is that those of us who choose to post will offer our opinions and advice. Other than that you just need to learn judo/wrestling and balance out your training(ie: more standup, more tournament conditions).

Now can we all come together for a giant pajama hug?
3/30/11 6:52 PM
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raleigh
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lol, sure! *hugs*
3/30/11 9:20 PM
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Seong gyeong
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Missing Glove Tape - This isn't the UG/OG or even the bjj subforum. No one is going to flame you simply for posting competition footage. You obviously did your best, and without talking shit or making excuses no less. So, the result is that those of us who choose to post will offer our opinions and advice. Other than that you just need to learn judo/wrestling and balance out your training(ie: more standup, more tournament conditions).

Now can we all come together for a giant pajama hug?


Haha, well-put!

And thanks for sharing the video; I'm sure others like me are benefiting from the forum input as well.
3/31/11 3:29 AM
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gbutts
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proper grip fighting always gives wrestlers fits. I prefer using cross-gripping to same side throws. box stance wrestlers are easy to control when you use 1000% of your body against 50% of their body. that is way I always stress same side throws (both hands on the same side).
3/31/11 11:46 AM
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raleigh
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ok at 3:00 you guys ever see an escape to triangle like that? I started doing this on my own somewhere along the line, wondering if anyone formally learned this, any details to help with this?
3/31/11 1:39 PM
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judoblackbelt
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Your lucky in that he didn't tie up the arm in Sankaku style (with your own gi) when you were on your side or your back. A good judo guy would of and then tried to turn you on your side to sankaku leg triange or a choke with his other hand reaching across and grabbing your collar or sit thru and pressure the tied up arm at the elbow. If he would of did any of these your escape would not of happened. He let you off the hook so to speak.
3/31/11 1:42 PM
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raleigh
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yeah I hear that! I get in a lot of trouble trying that in training. I think controlling the arm prevented that. I got lucky I did something right in a tournament situation re that escape
3/31/11 1:58 PM
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raleigh
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bjj forum came up with this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIXVvpBUMR0
3/31/11 6:12 PM
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raleigh
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTrZHa___6g

not a LOT of detail, you think the danger is there the way he does it judoblackbelt?
3/31/11 10:07 PM
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vegard
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4/2/11 9:22 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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yea, your grip fighitng is just not very good. when in a gi against a guy who wants to shoot so obviously you need to maintain grip control on his wrist. bjj has no rules regarding pistol gripping or same-side gripping so there are no excuses to let somebody get a hold of your legs so easily.
4/2/11 5:08 PM
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Sortilege
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Edited: 04/02/11 5:09 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoqoIwe4QB4&feature=related<br /><br />@ 1:57 mark is a grip that I've found works well against wrestlers. I do Harai Goshi from that grip and it works well, but you could also do O soto gari or Tai Otoshi.
4/2/11 8:15 PM
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judoblackbelt
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raleigh- first video - riberio running escape bjj forum came up with- I would never hold in side control like that. both my arms would be on the other side of thebody, at least the top arm. Top arm would be around your shoulder either grabbing your belt or sliding my hand under your arm by the tricep to grab my own gi at the collar. my elbow would be against your head. The other arm would be trying to control your hips movement.
2nd video by jujitsu matrix #12- the lower arm is ok controlling the hips but the top arm should be on the other side of the head like I suggested above. In pin control must control the head/top of the shoulder. From here my favoite transition is tieing up the opposite arm, north-south, turn uke on side, sankaku arm tie-up. then go to what is more likely, Sankaku leg triangle, choke, sit thru elbow lock, judo pin(s).
4/5/11 7:36 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I hope someday BJJ requires more legit standup. I saw a video on the BJJ forum where the opponents were walking like ducks. And these were skilled opponents. Why not make the BJJ sport better? No guard pulling, Some bent over posture rules. A legit standup/takedown before it hits the ground.
4/5/11 8:37 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Look at the progression of judo. eliminating initail leg grabs. When I watch video from the 1990(s) and early 2000(s) the lower weight classes(60K,66K) used these teckniques. Not enjoy able to watch. Contrast with Koga's style which is so dynamic. Real judo. Elimination of koka(lowest score)a big positive. We called it koka judo for those who tried to win this way. More matwork time a big plus even though this is very subjective at times. Allowing the continuation of the throw out of bounds if it began in bounds. My thought is why not make a takedown in BJJ legit and not allow defensive postures that is just defensive? Getting a 2 point takedown would incourage more offense from the player who is down the 2 points.

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