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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> Short vs tall - grips


4/8/11 2:54 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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when you crush somebody's grip you MIGHT be closing the gap, but you might actually be doing the opposite as well... it depends on stances and uke's reaction.

when you "crush down" a grip, often uke's ass moves back and away from tori. thus, you didnt close the gap, you actually increased it! now, this can be a problem for some and might be a blessing for others. how it is viewed depends on several individual traits and skill levels. in the hands of somebody with incredible kuzushi and a very good uchimata, yokotomoenage or drop seio maybe it is a blessing. for somebody who like ouchi, kouchi, sasai, harai, even osoto this might be exaserbating the problem.

there are all situations none of us can answer for the OP.

when the teens I work with are dealing with issues caused by gap, uncontrolled space, poor movement or bad gripping I tend to look at the situation using backward design... meaning, the desired result has to be considered first. thus, if the kid throws osoto the potential answers are different (to a degree) than those for somebody who wishes to throw primarity with tiotoshi.

the goal of any given situation has to be to put your player into a state of comfort where his/her neuromuscular system can perform a task with near perfection. thus, the more the player is able to think about what must happen in order to make his favorite/best techniques have a decent chance then the better the odds of it becoming a repetitive behavior.

example: a kid loves osoto, but he is always dealing with people who stick their butts back and create the gap where osoto is almost impossible to pull off. the gripping isnt an issue for now as the kid is able to get his preferred grip. thus, the solution must be one that makes uke stand more upright, providing tori the opportunity to make his osoto effective.

this can be accomplished many, many ways. forcing uke to take penalties for passivity. seeing if uke will bring his hips forward to block a forward throw to establish a possible feint. creating movement patterns that draw uke's feet to move forward. and many others.

but, the problem is not one that i solve by telling the kid to change his throws or to just crush somebody down. instead i explain to the kid that he needs a given situation to make his technique work and i help him otganize some possibilities to make that situation happen.
4/8/11 9:48 AM
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judoblackbelt
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I think most of the responders on this forum are not higher level judo players, are average skilled judokas, BJJ enthusiasts who want to learn judo. The higher level players are too busy competing. There are some who are "retired" like Justin Flores. My point is keeping the basic responses elementary to the skill level of the forum members. My background is 18 yrs of judo, seminars and video from higher level players ( Cohen, Morris, Pedro, Pedula, OTC, Canadian OTC, Yamashita, Okano, Kashiwazaki,Cho,Jeon, Qualmalzz, etc). Every recent judo Olympic/World Championships DVD. Attended 6-8 local/Regional/National judo events per year. WAtch tons of matches form judovision.org. BJJ video's from the BJJ forum. It can't be where only one person has all the answers and only that person.
4/8/11 10:40 PM
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Theakston
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I will keep you lot posted on how some of the solutions are working out. I have a couple of years experience with judo, but JBB is correct in assuming like many on here i am dealing with the "judo" at BJJ practice and competition. I have a long background in wrestling, where I competed at quite a high level in freestyle and greco. The only time i have trouble in nagewaza randori is against high level judo players who are strong and tall. BJJ allows us to cheat as it were, so recently at a tourney against a decent judoka I continually pulled on his belt to try to get him closer to me. He appeared to want to throw me with harai or hane goshi, and held me back with a tight tsurite high on the collar. I did beat it with a back throw when he finally attempted, but me offense was really negated by his approach.
4/9/11 1:53 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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using the belt to bring his hips in is a perfectly valid solution.. it is good judo by all means. ive used it many times. when the hips are being pulled/held in close by the belt then much of the downward force from the high lapel grip is negated. so long as your offense can work from a hip-to-hip situation within 5 seconds you are pretty much good to go.


IMHO, gripping the belt to pull uke in does not happen nearly enough.
4/10/11 1:54 PM
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Theakston
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And in BJJ there is no 5 second limit, so I was able to continue to work with the belt pull. Either that or the stoned brazilian who was reffing could not see through his dilated bloodshot-eyed stupour enough to caution me!
4/11/11 7:02 AM
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judoblackbelt
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Glad we could share our thoughts that might help you. My experience can only help guys like you. I have no credentials to help higher level players. Higher level players have coaches. I watch Pedro, Morris, Cohen, Liddie and other top coach's instruct their players and many times I have no idea why/what they are telling them. It is a different 'judo" world.
4/11/11 8:12 PM
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Theakston
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Even with the kodokan's lame and perhaps xenophobic attempts to restrain the development of the game, international judo is on an otherworldly plane now that most of us can only strive to comprehend, let alone attain.
4/12/11 1:19 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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Judo is Judo. Always has been, will not change. The difference between the "great" coaches and players you speak of is not at all what you think it to be. Truthfully, they just make sure that they understand the moments that happen BEFORE the attack. They do not go out onto the tatami and wing it or try to figure it out as it goes. they have spent literal weeks, months, years training and contemplating their hand placement, body movement and the desired impacts of those.

trust me when i say there are probably a hundred thousand people in the world with better uchimatas than Inoue, better osotogaris than Yamashita, tiotohi then Swain, and sode than Arencibia. thing is, there are none who were able to put themselves in the mental position to do what they did. there were none with the ability to put their bodies in the exact right place at the exact right time in the exact right way so that they could execute their technique when none of those other great technicians could.

4/12/11 7:46 AM
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judoblackbelt
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We beleive you. Judo is judo. Nothing I watch at the Olympic level (and I watch tons of video) is "new judo". So it is as you say what happens before the throw. I see this special skill and can only watch it since I can't understand it.

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