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Kickboxing UnderGround >> necessary to be a professional to open up school?


4/5/11 6:54 PM
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VICT0R
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trying to make a business out of muay thai whether its private instruction or doing a small start up gym. to me it adds credibility but does the average practitioner care?

what are your guys thoughts?
4/6/11 4:36 AM
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Bryan72
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I think it really depends on the customer base you are trying to address. Even then, I think it's not as important to most people. Which is sometimes fine, and sometimes sad.....

But that's just my opinion. I've seen very talented teachers/ fighters struggle for whatever reason, and have seen snake-oil salesmen rake in money, hand over fist.
4/6/11 8:54 AM
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Khun Kao
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Edited: 04/06/11 8:57 AM
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When you say professional, do you mean "professional fighter"?

As Bryan72 points out, it really just depends on what your business model is, who is your customer base? If you are simply selling a fitness program, you don't really need much more than the basics. If you are selling a self defense system, you need to have really trained to understand the art. If you are looking to be a fighting gym, then you want to surround yourself with people who have been involved in the fight game.

As Bryan72 also pointed out, there are talented fighters/coaches who have struggled for various reasons. As an example, the stars never aligned for me to fight professionally. I fought extensively as an amateur and have been involved in almost every conceivable aspect of the fight game, but I just coach privately out of my garage. There are also some excellent coaches out there with very little fight experience, but they run great Muay Thai fitness AND fighting programs for major gyms with successful fight teams.

The bottom line is figuring out what exactly you're trying to sell and being HONEST about it. It galls me to see people with very little or no real Muay Thai experience claiming to teach Muay Thai, or worse yet, attempting to train people to fight with what they believe is Muay Thai.
4/6/11 2:24 PM
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VICT0R
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yes khun kao, a "professional fighter". i guess i'd consider myself having a pretty extensive amateur career as well and have been dabbling in the idea of going pro across the deck (muay thai, boxing and mma). i figured i should start getting some money for something i've essentially been doing for free haha. but you may know that fighting really isn't about the money. i fight to support the sport, to honor my krus and really to have a good time afterward. no other feeling can replace the one after the fight ends. epic.

i've had instructors with professional fights in the hundreds, then i've had a boxing coach with only 20 amateur fights but god damn if he wasn't the best coach i've had the pleasure to train under. so passionate and hardworking with the bravado of the saltiest toughest mexican boxer and balls of steel.

obviously i would want to train fighters to fight but to allow my business to prosper i must also focus on the fitness aspect in order to pay the bills.

i want to represent the sport to the fullest and it is a pet peeve of mine as well to see people claiming to teach muay thai with none or little experience.

*sigh*
4/6/11 2:38 PM
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VICT0R
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thanks guys!
4/6/11 3:14 PM
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Bryan72
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This just kind of dawned on me, Victor....do we know each other?
4/6/11 3:53 PM
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VICT0R
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hi kru bryan :]
4/6/11 3:57 PM
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Bryan72
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Lol. Victor, you are more than qualified! Phone Post
4/6/11 6:14 PM
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VICT0R
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haha youre too good to me kru bryan but when i think about how i first started looking for a place, i wanted "professional fighters" as trainer and i then i think "who wants to learn from an amateur". i didn't know anything thus would make ignorant assumptions like that but through training i learned that you can't think that way.

im trying to think like the average joe i guess haha
4/13/11 7:10 AM
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Brycer
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You dont have to be pro, imo. My gyms coach has like 4 fights in boxing and muay thai, but we have students with 12-14 fights who do well in competition. As long as you know your shit you are good to go. People can sense bullshit, even if it does take a while. Phone Post
4/14/11 3:28 AM
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TigerMuayThai
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Somewhere Greg Jackson is laughing at this thread and is glad that he teaches MMA :)
4/20/11 10:40 AM
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Martinez!
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VICT0R - haha youre too good to me kru bryan but when i think about how i first started looking for a place, i wanted "professional fighters" as trainer and i then i think "who wants to learn from an amateur". i didn't know anything thus would make ignorant assumptions like that but through training i learned that you can't think that way.

im trying to think like the average joe i guess haha



Cus D'Amato and Angelo Dundee trained Tyson and Ali, respectively. As far as I know neither of them fought pro, and I think they both had less than 20 amatuer matches each. Freddie Roach is one of the best trainers around, and he only had a few pro fights.

Kru Toy, who is the head trainer at Sityodtong Pattaya, has trained hundreds of top MT fighters, including Lumpini, Ratchadamnern, and King's B-Day Cup champs...and he had something like 25-30 MT fights.

On the other hand, Sugar Ray Leonard was apparently a pretty poor boxing coach. Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you can teach other people to be good at it, too. But if you have a good amount of fight experience AND can teach...people will train with you. That's what I've seen, anyway.
4/21/11 12:02 AM
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ninjaofhate
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Actually freddie roach finished with a pro record of 40-13 or something which is a pretty extensive career. Although he is a good example of experienced fighter turned trainer there are many others that are quite the opposite. Look a Shawn Tompkins and Firas Zahabi. Both fought amateur muay Thai fairly successfully from what I understand but Firas has no pro experience and Shawn's professional career was less than stellar. I think this is the case in almost any sport. Look at hockey for instance, so many NHL coaches that never made it past the collegiate ranks. Being able to retain and convey proper techniques to students is a far cry from being able to display it in the professional ring although it does help. Phone Post
4/22/11 9:23 PM
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VICT0R
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cool.. thanks for all your input guys, much appreciated.
4/22/11 10:41 PM
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Martinez!
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ninjaofhate - Actually freddie roach finished with a pro record of 40-13 or something which is a pretty extensive career. Although he is a good example of experienced fighter turned trainer there are many others that are quite the opposite. Look a Shawn Tompkins and Firas Zahabi. Both fought amateur muay Thai fairly successfully from what I understand but Firas has no pro experience and Shawn's professional career was less than stellar. I think this is the case in almost any sport. Look at hockey for instance, so many NHL coaches that never made it past the collegiate ranks. Being able to retain and convey proper techniques to students is a far cry from being able to display it in the professional ring although it does help. <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>



My mistake. For some reason I thought he only had 15-20 pro fights when he was really young.

4/23/11 12:02 AM
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OUTCOLD
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as long you have some genuine training behind you and a good understanding of the sport I dont think a pro record is necessary.

But be honest with your students about your background none of this "monks gave me the Khru title in thailand" "I fought at Lumpinee" crap that people seem to try and sell.


The more Thai Gyms the merrier but keep it real!!

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