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JKD UnderGround >> RBSD or MMA?


4/11/11 9:13 AM
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Joe Maffei
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I was just curious, what % of the forum is out here for RBSD or MMA?
IMHO there ”is“ MMA in RBSD but no RBSD in MMA. You can learn MMA in a fairly short time, but RBSD will take years to learn. That’s because it’s the Reality part that is so extensive, not the SD.
So where is the interest out here? And why?
4/11/11 3:32 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"""You can learn MMA in a fairly short time, but RBSD will take years to learn."""

I would say that learning something is not being functional in something. Even then, once you become functional at say MMA, you have to maintain...

Here's how I see it.

RBSD is the "shortest path" for very obvious reasons.

RULE #1 - You would be taught to diffuse and avoid whenever possible. As well as verbal redirection and deceptive dialogue for pre-emptive setups.

*Physically you would train only high probability elements.

Basic Box/Clinch/Ground.

Basic Impact and Bladed Weapons.

Basic Firearms.

Basic OC Spray and White Light.

You would have a practice routine of anything from 1-2 times per week or even 1-2 times per month.

Statistically your in good shape BECAUSE of a low probability of being assaulted (varies), the fact the predators are looking for victims not challenges and Rule #1.

Program continues indefinitely or until interest is lost.


MMA on the other hand is competitive, habitual, a hobby and even a lifestyle. You have to make weight, go to competitions... You will have many MMA friends who enjoy the training and the basis for your friendships may even be MMA (even without formal competing).

In MMA you have to be good enough to work against dedicated and well trained athletes who are constantly trying to out game you through skill and strength and conditioning.

Practice routine of 1-3 times a week with a strength and conditioning schedule.

Program remains constant to ensure routine performance.

YOU CAN take RBSD to a "lifestyle level". But that's pathological (meaning it's descended into disease) IMO. Nobody should be sitting around at Taco Bell trying to figure out what color code of awareness they are on.
4/11/11 3:32 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 04/11/11 6:01 PM
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I posted this like 5 times somehow
4/11/11 3:32 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 04/11/11 6:00 PM
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Double post
4/11/11 3:38 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 04/11/11 6:00 PM
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Triple post
4/11/11 3:38 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 04/11/11 5:59 PM
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Quad post
4/12/11 2:32 AM
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John Frankl
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Good post(s) by Demi. But I wonder about...

"RULE #1 - You would be taught to diffuse and avoid whenever possible. As well as verbal redirection and deceptive dialogue for pre-emptive setups"

Why not make rule 1 to modify your lifestyle to ensure an absolutely minimal need for the rule 1 above?
4/12/11 10:06 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"""Why not make rule 1 to modify your lifestyle to ensure an absolutely minimal need for the rule 1 above?"""

My answer to that, from 42 years of living in a skin suit, is...

Because we are all stupid and reactionary and prideful and thoughtless. We seek our own benefit before others. We grab at food when were full even when someone who hasn't eaten is reaching. We fail to live up to our best expectations of ourselves but demand that others exceed our expectations of them. We are all simultaneously trying to be the general manager of the universe. Some of us get insulted far too easily and others cast insults far to quickly. We are quick to dismantle the accomplishments of others while putting our creations on pedestals.

Humans tend to Major in the Minor and Minor in the Major...

Basically, the human condition doesn't allow practical consistency to a dependable degree. Externally persons can be very "nice". And hopefully life experience is shaping and maturing us into better versions of ourselves all the time. Regardless of self discipline, who among us can say "I will never say something offensive to someone else for no reason"???

This has been my experience and what I have observed in others...
4/12/11 12:44 PM
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Joe Maffei
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Edited: 04/12/11 12:45 PM
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Demi that's crazy bro..;-) No disrepect my man i just think of it different.I don't know who distorted this view of RBSD to you,Probably the many RB instructors themselves, I've seen what many sell and 90% of it sucks because the program is "not reality based", go figure..:-)

You don't need to be paranoid sitting around at Taco Bell trying to figure out what color code of awareness they are on. That's just stupid if that's what some do.

To me MMA and all the benefits that come with it are contained in the RBSD program, The friendship, camaraderie, training, competing, all of it, with an additional set of priorities to understand the reality of being functional in a dis-functional society. It's this set of priorities that make up the reality of a RBSD program.
The fighting will take care of itself. Cover up, strike, cover, clinch, fall, get up, cover, strike etc Now what?

Predators looking for victims can be a concern, but in reality, the chances of getting attacked in this manner are the same as your home burning down. Folks don't sit around worrying about a fire nor should they worry about some random attack waiting to happen. It's just not realistic. Catching someone in the act of stealing from you in a very poor economy, after a flood, power outage, or natural or man made disaster is more in line with the realms of reality today. Someone out of a job breaking into your car, gets caught, he gets scared, panics cause he is really a good guy who needs money for his family, gets into a fight just to get away, he didn't trust your verbal judo. That's more like it. now what??? Your injured.

Well stitch is not working your corner but luckily you took the self aid portion of the RBSD program and can administer treatment to yourself until a medical team arrives. The reality is, there might not be anyone there to help you

The reality is the un-known and the RBSD program that I offer anyway gives priorities to those thousands of unknowns "the what if's" so you can have confidence in yourself in and outside of the training center.

So that's the RBSD program to me, the MMA within it is fun healthy and is generally how humans fight. As far as the conduct of humans, review the 10 Commandments and the 7 deadly sins that should answer that.

I was just wondering where the interest is, in the sport, or when the techniques of the sport are use outside.
4/12/11 1:59 PM
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Marc1000
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At 41 years old, I am more interested in RBSD, but with major caveats. It's better to have fighting skills and never have to use them than to be in a position where you have protect yourself and be unable to do so.

IMO, at my age it would foolish to train at an MMA gym with super competitive, extremely athletic guys who dream of fighting professionally. How many men in their forties play tackle football? Other than a a tiny percentage of professionals like Brett Favre I suspect very few do so. Also, how many men who work full-time, are married to a woman who works full-time and have children can train several times a week? If I can only train once a week (or less), it's not a great idea to do hard sparring in an MMA gym with a guy in his twenties who can make it to several classes a week.

However, I think that someone can only teach RBSD effectively if they understand the techniques and training of MMA. I have learned some great material from RBSD instructors, but both of them had extensive backgrounds in combat sports and even competed.

An RBSD instructor and students who understand the techniques of MMA and are physically fit will have a much different program than the ineffective RBSD instructors who become comical stereotypes and the objects of derision.

Pure RBSD offerings seems to take place largely in instructional DVD's, seminars and private training in garages. I live in LA and the only pure RBSD program with regular classes appears to be Krav Maga.

The RBSD and MMA lifestyle both have their downsides if taken to extremes. An RBSD guy who becomes too paranoid and thinks the worst of everyone can find himself in bad situations and create a self-fulfilling prophecy. The over the top marketing for RBDS DVD's that plays on paranoia and lists crime statistics makes me throw up in my mouth. The MMA lifestyle can produce a hyper competitive environment and lead to injuries.

The Crazy Monkey Defense approach is an example of a program that will teach you to protect yourself without being paranoid. They use effective techniques from the combat sports, but they don't injure one another and cause brain damage when they train. I am less familiar with Demi's and Joe's stuff, but they seem to take the best from MMA and RBSD. If I lived near them, I would have no hesitation in training with them.

Marc

4/13/11 11:57 AM
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Joe Maffei
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Edited: 04/13/11 11:59 AM
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Thank you Marc 1000 for stepping up to the plate and sharing your views. I agree with you 100% and well said.

I ask whether the interest is in MMA or RBSD even though it's in the same box for me because it tells me about the members of this forum.

What I have found in my 53 years is that MMA tends to attract a younger crowed folks with time, extra money, the desire to compete and show what they got, fitness, pride, discipline, respect, all excellent qualities, all promoting a healthy life style.

Now for RBSD this tends to draw an older crowd, like Marc. Married, kids, full time JOBS. At this point in their life it's not all about them, on the contrary it's all about everyone else. Every thing you do has to benefit your family. Extra $$$ goes to them, extra time goes to them. You can't train really hard because if you get hurt, things stop going to them and your head is on the chopping block. So if you are training in any way it better fall into the family plan. This is the reality. This is how it must fit into your world.

I think in general now most MMA schools are consistent in their teaching with exception to the top camps. But RBSD schools very GREATLY. 90% are just what marc said DOOM and GlOOM. Just because a school offers rifle, hand gun, OC etc. doesn't mean to me that it is reality based. Adding weapons, gear, equipment, etc putting on the solider image Ra ra ra, kill, kill, kill is detrimental to one's goodness in sprit as Demi mentioned previously. So how does it fit in?

Well to start with it has to be cost effect and directly benefit the family. Take the self aid portion of my RBSD program This can be used to help not only yourself but others whether someone was hurt during a fight or not. This is a good thing right?

MMA has been around for a while now and a lot of guys have out grown the life style do to age injuries etc this is a way to continue, just keeping it more realistic for the family while still using MMA as your base

with a solid set of priorities... Just in case...:-)

More comments please...
4/16/11 5:23 PM
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bkprice661
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I think rule one of Demis is dead on. The idea one can modify ones life assumes that other people will not intrude into yours.

I trained in both MMA and RBSD, I prefer RBSD now becuase knowing how to finish someone fifty ways or getting a high ranking belt means nothing to me at this point, I'm 40. Im one for pratical responses for common situations.

Training for me is about knowing what works, adapting these things to different situations and using set-ups to put me in the best spot so I get home safely to play X-Box with my son.

MMA is great, just that it has a different goal, which changes training and focus.
4/16/11 9:24 PM
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jrrrrr
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I'm more martial way with some emphasis on self defense/rbsd and in fact taking a Krav Maga class now.

I view people doing MA training for 3 main reasons (there is overlap)
1 - self defense - being able to be safe
2 - martial way - using MA as a way for self development, enjoyment, etc
3 - martial sport - training to compete

Self defense would include RBSD. It would have to not just include the MA aspect but topics from awareness(whats going on around you)/self awareness (what are you doing) and deescalation. It would alsoe include issues of making sure the house is locked up at night and making sure the house has motion sensors, etc.
Most of the above self defense has no bearing on MMA training and visa versa.

The MMA training will help as mentioned in the above thread in physical conditioning, being able to be in a H2H fight in all ranges. As MA training does not include suprise attacks, weapons and much more self defense related, its actual help is somewhat marginal.
4/17/11 9:15 AM
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BigSifu
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 I am tired of hearing over 40's guys talk about cutting back on their training. I am 44,train 4-5 times a week (mitts,10 rd sparring,grappling),plus cardio 1-2x a week,work,play with my kids (age 22-4 years),pay bills,and manage my DCUO addiction. I do not drink or go out. I train because I enjoy the hard contact,the "risk",the physicality of training. I enjoy my life and live it to the fullest. Getting old doesn't always mean "stopping" the hard stuff (just being "smarter" about it!).
4/18/11 9:00 AM
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Loco Lobo
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Cool thread ,Maffei makes some good points as always!
4/18/11 2:58 PM
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Greg Southworth
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What is RBSD? Phone Post
4/21/11 10:57 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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 RBSD or 'Reality-Based Self-Defense' is an interesting concept when you add a firearm to the mix.

We talk about unarmed or hand-held weapon SD, but when you look at the training, range time, scenario training that someone does when trying to be good with a handgun (HG), it's impressive.

The planning, equipping, and tactics are formidable and the HG user has real deadly force at their fingertips, not some 'idea' of a one-punch or one hit KO.

You have to train just as consistently, lower heart rate, good breathing, physically fit body are all just as essential, though not quite as necessary in a CQ fight.

Get your CHL and get training with a real weapon, learn how to carry 16/7 and learn the law. It's fun and an effective method for dealing with real-life SD when you're a bit older and may have lost a step.

$0.02

4/21/11 6:55 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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In RBSD firearms are the first order of business.

In the US we can own, and in some municipalities, even carry a weapon (open or concealed).

In REALITY we want to protect ourselves and our loved ones and the innocent from predators.

The problem gun people run into is that YOU, the physical being, is the delivery system for the firearm.

So, MMA, weapons, physical fitness, diet, rest, attentiveness to surroundings, verbal re-direction etc. all play into the big picture.

The human condition is driven by pride. Basterds us all, we need to shut up and learn the laws and understand that we do not need to look cool, act tough, save face and learn to take the easy way when it is presented (even tho someone has made us look like a wimp).

We should do everything we can to escape or avoid even if it means that Joe the "dick face" looks like he got the best of us in a verbal dispute at the bar or pizza place...

So what...???

No cops. No law suits. No hospital. No jail. No lawyers. No time away from work. No time away from our families. Nobody hurt.

BUT, in the immediacy of any event, if you have to protect yourself, your loved ones or the innocent from harm, great bodily injury or death then do what must be done to stop the threat to the best of your ability (by a reasonable mans standard) while minimizing secondary problems to the same.

My friends are people who understand the potential for bullshit BUT hope and pray they never experience it while training (constantly or here and there) FOR when they encounter it. Those friends I love who are involved with such things "pray for peace BUT prepare for war".

I have actually met (and unfortunately trained) pieces of shit who are waiting to dish out a lil justice to some who get "slightly out of line" at the mid state fair or the local taco joint. As soon as they reveal themselves I become very unavailable and too busy to train them... Sometimes I recommend counseling or AA.

I'm slowly moving away from all of this crap. MMA, martial arts, BJJ, JKD, firearms, whatever...

14 years in the industry and I am almost sickened by it...
4/21/11 10:33 PM
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Joe Maffei
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Demi that is natural bro, a friend/acquaintance of mine is Richard Marcinko for those who never heard of him he was a SEAL. He is like 60 something now. I asked him if he still trained because he still had a very strong hand shake. He said the only training he does today is play with his grand kids. He lives in the mountains and wants nothing to do with all that stuff.

It becomes boring and the shine is gone. Now is not the time to retire my friend. Your worth is increasing as a teacher because now you can put all this stuff in its rightful place. The image, the hype, what's in vogue all means nothing because you have seen the man behind the curtain. If you fight it is because you have to help, not because you enjoy imposing your will on others. be the fool on the hill watching the world go round and round.
It's more fun that way...:-)
4/22/11 6:52 AM
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BigSifu
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 I'm having a hard time with it getting boring too. I quit a BJJ gym because there were some group politics that got in the way of my enjoying it. I played guitar for a long time in bands,but that got to be a grind too. My best buddy,a drummer,passed away due to a heart attack in '98,I played a jam at his funeral,then sold my stuff. People,audiences,everybody,are idiots. It wears you down. I'm glad I have a day job and other hobbies,because the idiots who are attracted to fighting would make me hang up my gloves. It's all about love. Loving what you do,and finding that thing that made you love it in the first place. Demi,my old PFS instructor gave me one of your old VHS tapes back in 2000,(he didn't like it),which somehow led to my getting the old SBGI "Functional JKD" series and changed my world. I hope you feel better about things soon. One of the reasons this is the best "JKD" forums is the dose of reality it gives out. Your presence here would be missed.
4/22/11 5:44 PM
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cprevost
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I don't much care for either MMA or RBSD. My best defense is exercise, healthy eating, and a good lifestyle. At 43 I'm not going to enjoy getting in the ring and taking punches to the head anymore. Not my thing. BJJ has been awesome and I will do it until I can't anymore. It's easy on my body and the competitive nature of it cuts away all the bullshit. I don't trane "UFC" or "street" and don't feel a need to. All I need is some good songs on the radio, a gi, and someone to roll with and I'm set. The rest is all bullshit to me.
4/22/11 9:29 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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cprevost - I don't much care for either MMA or RBSD. My best defense is exercise, healthy eating, and a good lifestyle. At 43 I'm not going to enjoy getting in the ring and taking punches to the head anymore. Not my thing. BJJ has been awesome and I will do it until I can't anymore. It's easy on my body and the competitive nature of it cuts away all the bullshit. I don't trane "UFC" or "street" and don't feel a need to. All I need is some good songs on the radio, a gi, and someone to roll with and I'm set. The rest is all bullshit to me.



This is a good attitude. I LIKE IT.
4/22/11 9:41 PM
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lloydmtz
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A lot of good post on this thread.
4/23/11 8:08 AM
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Joe Maffei
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cprevost I agree w/ Demi, good attitude. But isn't attitude every thing? And doesn't everything have the potential to be BS. It's people who start the BS. people turn RBSD into paranoia, mis-trusting weirdo's, it's people who turn MMA into body flexing, fist clenching, screaming lunatics, it's people who turn BJJ into a political nightmare.

IMHO almost everything can be healthy with the right attitude......LOL....:-)
4/23/11 11:01 AM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"""It would be interesting to see how your attitude might change if you were held up by a guy with a knife."""

I would hope that it would not foster a broken spirit and a prideful (moving toward paranoia) attitude that made him start flying around the country to learn the greatest most devastating moves so that NO MAN ALIVE could ever try that again...

Tongue in check, YES. BUT, does happen, YES...

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