UnderGround Forums
 

UnderGround Forums >> Aoki just three taps from Big Nog's record


4/12/11 11:38 AM
Ignore | Vote Down | Vote Up
Underground News
1125 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/3/08
Posts: 5793
The Underground News, Editor
 

Could Shinya Aoki one day retire as the most effective BJJ black belt in MMA?

A shoo-in for the great finisher’s hall of fame, Jeremy Horn, 35, is gunning for Thales Leites in Sweden at the end of this month, looking for the 50th submission of his career. But Horn isn’t one to sweat up a gi.

The still active Ken Shamrock has 22 finishes at 47 years of age. But he isn’t a Jiu-Jitsu black belt either.

Kazushi Sakuraba has 19 wins by submission, but he's a catch wrestler.

Then there’s Rodrigo Minotauro, 34, a BJJ black belt, with 20 wins coming via Jiu-Jitsu holds.

Could Shinya Aoki one day retire as the most effective BJJ black belt in MMA? When it comes down to numbers, the day is approaching for the Japanese fighter. At 27 years of age, the Yuki Nakai black belt notched his 17th submission win, over Lyle Beerbohm at last Saturday’s Strikeforce show.

Will the Brazilian heavyweight have it in him to return to the UFC and add some arms to his collection and put some distance between the two? Or will Aoki surge past legends like Sakuraba and Minotauro?

Read entire article...


4/12/11 12:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
lThanatosl
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 12/30/10
Posts: 97
3 is still quite a bit.
4/12/11 1:31 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
behrens14
1 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/14/10
Posts: 121
I'm curious to see who Strikeforce will have lined up to take him on next, or maybe he will make a UFC debut?
4/12/11 2:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ausgepicht
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 46596
That article acts like only BJJers matter when it comes to submissions. So smarmy. Regardless, Aoki is an AJJer and that makes the article even more pointless than it already is.
4/12/11 2:15 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Pernicious
68 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 2/12/07
Posts: 6874
So all Horn would have to do is be graded for a BJJ belt to be "eligible?" I would assume hes viewed as black belt level, right?
4/12/11 2:19 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
ausgepicht
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 46599
Pernicious - So all Horn would have to do is be graded for a BJJ belt to be "eligible?" I would assume hes viewed as black belt level, right?
Not in the religious cult of traditonal martial arts called BJJ. It's all about lineage....the very same thing BJJers made fun of karate guys for just a few short years ago. Full circle has come around. 
 
4/12/11 2:35 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
CyborgRoyce
36 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/2/09
Posts: 1154
^ Funny too because Aoki was a Judoka to begin with and was already a well established submission artist before he started BJJ
4/12/11 2:38 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Musashi
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 47858
NO. Ken does NOT have 22 MMA submissions. Where do people get off calling slap fighting MMA? Give it a rest. He was also known to WORK fights in the old pancrase organization. His name shouldn't be mentioned with the likes of Sak, Aoki, Nog, Horn, etc.
4/12/11 2:56 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Ezekiel
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/22/09
Posts: 148
This guy is my inspiration when I roll Phone Post
4/12/11 2:59 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
disbeliever
338 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 9/27/03
Posts: 12818
I always looked up to imanari when grappling
4/12/11 3:14 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35394
King Koopa - He's finished Alvarez, Kawajiri and Beerbohm in under 5 minutes of MMA, that's some impressive stuff.


Just another fact swept under the rug by - for lack of a more accurate term - Aoki/JMMA haters.

4/12/11 3:17 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35395
ausgepicht - That article acts like only BJJers matter when it comes to submissions. So smarmy. Regardless, Aoki is an AJJer and that makes the article even more pointless than it already is.


I think its trying to determine which BJJ guy has the most taps. It notes guys like Sak but he aint a BJJ guy.

And am i missing something on Aoki being a Jake Shields disciple? lol.....Aoki is a japanese judo guy turned BJJer under Yuki Nakai.
4/12/11 3:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 23371
Musashi - NO. Ken does NOT have 22 MMA submissions. Where do people get off calling slap fighting MMA? Give it a rest. He was also known to WORK fights in the old pancrase organization. His name shouldn't be mentioned with the likes of Sak, Aoki, Nog, Horn, etc.


pride fixed fights also, according to your logic sak should be off the list
4/12/11 3:18 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35396
john kirby do - different orgs, but aoki vs. askren would be interesting


Agree. Askren is likely improving fast and most will point out that Garcia also schooled Aoki in ADCC though years ago but have a hard time thinking Askren can keep up with Aoki in subgrappling at this point seeing how easily Garcia was tapping Askren every like 5 seconds in that clip of them rolling.

But would still make for an interesting stylistic matchup in MMA.
4/12/11 5:11 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
spliffmood
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 5/9/07
Posts: 179
Lol @ Sak. Of course he has an extensive grappling background but wasn't he trained by a BJJ black belt? in fact, everyone on that list train BJJ to a certain extent.

Just because they don't wear a gi does not mean it ain't BJJ.
4/12/11 5:36 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35398
spliffmood - Lol @ Sak. Of course he has an extensive grappling background but wasn't he trained by a BJJ black belt? in fact, everyone on that list train BJJ to a certain extent.

Just because they don't wear a gi does not mean it ain't BJJ.


Believe he trained briefly with de la riva or someone but, we've been thru this arguement a million times. Does every BJJer thats also trained in judo or wrestling then become a judoka or wrestler?

Sak is a freestyle wrestler turned catch. That is the basis of his game.
4/12/11 5:44 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35399
good to see how badly aoki twisted up kikuchi since thats just another fact swept under the rug by aoki deniers.

Akira Kikuchi was ranked top 10 at WW at some point in his career and is the last guy to beat Jake Shields and Aoki beat Kikuchi twice.
4/12/11 6:04 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Musashi
269 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 47870
jacktripper - 
Musashi - NO. Ken does NOT have 22 MMA submissions. Where do people get off calling slap fighting MMA? Give it a rest. He was also known to WORK fights in the old pancrase organization. His name shouldn't be mentioned with the likes of Sak, Aoki, Nog, Horn, etc.


pride fixed fights also, according to your logic sak should be off the list


Read my post again and learn something about logic before you criticize mine. Pride didn't promote SLAP FIGHTS by default. And I said KEN did worked fights. He is suspected of it in other organizations as well. It's the fighter I'm pointing at.

There have been worked fights in the UFC too. That doesn't mean the organization isn't legit. It's the fighters who are suspect. Frye, Hall, Macias, etc. But the UFC, Pride, etc. are still MMA promotions. They have never been in the business of staging slap fights.
4/12/11 7:37 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
jacktripper
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 3/27/03
Posts: 23377
Musashi - 
jacktripper - 
Musashi - NO. Ken does NOT have 22 MMA submissions. Where do people get off calling slap fighting MMA? Give it a rest. He was also known to WORK fights in the old pancrase organization. His name shouldn't be mentioned with the likes of Sak, Aoki, Nog, Horn, etc.


pride fixed fights also, according to your logic sak should be off the list


Read my post again and learn something about logic before you criticize mine. Pride didn't promote SLAP FIGHTS by default. And I said KEN did worked fights. He is suspected of it in other organizations as well. It's the fighter I'm pointing at.

There have been worked fights in the UFC too. That doesn't mean the organization isn't legit. It's the fighters who are suspect. Frye, Hall, Macias, etc. But the UFC, Pride, etc. are still MMA promotions. They have never been in the business of staging slap fights.


i wasnt criticizing you, i also believe fighters who been in fixed fights should have a a big * next to their name in the record books

and yes sak has been in at least one fixed fight outside of pride also (vs kimo of all people)
4/12/11 9:23 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Lord Kancho
21 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 7/3/08
Posts: 2782
holy crap @ horn! 50 is amazing!
4/12/11 10:09 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
goeb
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/22/05
Posts: 6048
Aoki has always been like a modern day Royce Gracie to me. He lives and dies by his outstanding BJJ skills and that's how he wins fights really, even against other great submission fighters he does amazing things others cannot.

He is this shrimpy looking guy who can beat any fighter at 155 on any given day if he can catch them in his guard. He may be susceptible to the KO via guys like Hansen or Mach but the guy has had quick sub victories over Alvarez and Kawajiri, beat them both within 2 minutes. Doesn't get as much credit cause it's not a KO, but to sub those guys that quickly is damn impressive
4/12/11 11:43 PM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Naughty Gorilla
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 19632
Retarded. Every org except full Vale Tudo has limitations. Unified rules has rather pussified rules? Guess it shouldn't count either? Lots of guys still got KTFO in Pancrase. Ask Bas's victims. Ask Frank Shamrock who got KTFO.

Musashi - NO. Ken does NOT have 22 MMA submissions. Where do people get off calling slap fighting MMA? Give it a rest. He was also known to WORK fights in the old pancrase organization. His name shouldn't be mentioned with the likes of Sak, Aoki, Nog, Horn, etc.

4/13/11 2:34 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
Wasa-B
294 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 1/1/01
Posts: 35402
goeb - Aoki has always been like a modern day Royce Gracie to me. He lives and dies by his outstanding BJJ skills


His td ability is underated which is no small part aided by his judo background.

goeb - He is this shrimpy looking guy


He aint no Sherk but Sherk is about half a foot smaller than him. I think its his ghey candy cane colored leggings and shit and his boyish face. His build isnt really that bad.

goeb - he may be susceptible to the KO via guys like Hansen or Mach


It should ALWAYS be noted that he is 2-0 by sub against Hansen on single fight nights and that the Mach fight was at 170 with knees on the ground. If people can harp on Aoki's tights, we can harp that the Mach thing aint happening in unified rules. Many thought Aoki beat Mach prior in Shooto as well (he lost the dec).


goeb - but the guy has had quick sub victories over Alvarez and Kawajiri, beat them both within 2 minutes. Doesn't get as much credit cause it's not a KO, but to sub those guys that quickly is damn impressive


Someone noted too that he's tapped Alvarez, Kawajiri and Beerbohm in under 5 min. That is amazing. And yes, completely agree that its totally slept on because he aint no KO.

Case in point, everyone is going buckwild over Gil's TKO over Kawa but Aoki finished him faster. Gil WAS dam impressive but Aoki finished Kawa in the first sequence of the fight but about 1/50 of the noise was made when that happened.

4/14/11 4:16 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
goeb
12 The total sum of your votes up and votes down Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/22/05
Posts: 6052
Wasa-B - 
goeb - Aoki has always been like a modern day Royce Gracie to me. He lives and dies by his outstanding BJJ skills


His td ability is underated which is no small part aided by his judo background.

goeb - He is this shrimpy looking guy


He aint no Sherk but Sherk is about half a foot smaller than him. I think its his ghey candy cane colored leggings and shit and his boyish face. His build isnt really that bad.

goeb - he may be susceptible to the KO via guys like Hansen or Mach


It should ALWAYS be noted that he is 2-0 by sub against Hansen on single fight nights and that the Mach fight was at 170 with knees on the ground. If people can harp on Aoki's tights, we can harp that the Mach thing aint happening in unified rules. Many thought Aoki beat Mach prior in Shooto as well (he lost the dec).


goeb - but the guy has had quick sub victories over Alvarez and Kawajiri, beat them both within 2 minutes. Doesn't get as much credit cause it's not a KO, but to sub those guys that quickly is damn impressive


Someone noted too that he's tapped Alvarez, Kawajiri and Beerbohm in under 5 min. That is amazing. And yes, completely agree that its totally slept on because he aint no KO.

Case in point, everyone is going buckwild over Gil's TKO over Kawa but Aoki finished him faster. Gil WAS dam impressive but Aoki finished Kawa in the first sequence of the fight but about 1/50 of the noise was made when that happened.




Wow where do i start... I know you can point out reasons as to why hansen and Mach have victories over him, but the guy is susceptible to the KO via knees mostly, and everytime he gets KO'ed people will write him off. I'll always be a fan regardless, he shows that the guard is not dead in MMA and every opponent is afraid of aoki's guard as if it were Maia's.

With the underrated takedowns, yes that makes him a modern day royce in a sense, cause Royce didn't really have that. Aoki's problem is, his takedowns are usually more suited for the ring where he can clinch you up in the corner due to his judo background or he can pull guard. This is why Melendez vs. Aoki in japan always intrigued me cause it's a big advantage for aoki who has had limited experience inside a cage.

in terms of his build, I meant shrimpy by upper-tier MMA standards. Any other top 5 fighters who have a body like that? He's not an imposing figure is my point (especially if you've never seen him fight before).

He's a rarity in modern MMA, and I'd like to see him fight any top guys at 155, all it takes is for the fight to go to the floor once, kinda like how a knockout artist always has a punchers chance. Doesn't matter who he's fighting.
4/14/11 9:39 AM
Ignore | Quote | Vote Down | Vote Up
bhealthy
Send Private Message Add Comment To Profile

Member Since: 11/14/06
Posts: 11298
meaningless without the WAMMA belt imo

Reply Post

You must log in to post a reply. Click here to login.