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Judo/Sambo UnderGround >> THE COMPLETE GRAPPLER ?


5/2/11 3:06 AM
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gbutts
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Missing Glove Tape - 
gbutts - Good points, I was think about a skill set,and abailtiy to apdt to any rule set using your core grapping art. I trulely believe the next generation grapplers will be able to do it all like the old timers; look at how mma has evolve, now you have to be a complete fighter but they still have their base (foundation) and adpt their foundation to a rule set.

Sure, I guess if we're talking about single 'superfight' type matches then an elite athlete with a complete game has the potential to compete with/impose their game against anyone in the world. It'd still be really difficult, I think, because you're essentially talking about competing against someone who is not only an elite athlete themselves, but also a specialist in _____ style/rule set. But at least in that situation you wouldn't have to grind out victories in multiple matches against athletes with an assortment of strengths/styles of play that you may not have seen/felt before. I think it was Tom Brands from Iowa who talked about something similar in a flowrestling video. He was saying how necessary it is for American wrestlers to get international experience, at as early an age as possible, for them to really be able to compete against the best in the world, because even at the elite college level(and getting ready to transition to freestyle/greco full-time), there is still so much that they need to see/feel before they're ready. So, the same would absolutely be true for an athlete wanting to compete at the elite level in multiple sports. The fundamentals would still be the same re: skill development and knowing the various rules and how to attack/defend the entire body, but again, the subtleties of things like grip/handfighting would be *really* hard to deal with at that level where the difference between winning and losing is often a question of who gets their grip first.



I hear you but that is what I am talking out for example a judo player using his grips in a bjj tournament to take the back and then knowing what to do once they take the back. Using throws and takedowns to transition into position and submissions. But I see what you are saying. Maybe I am just set on creating a master grappler lol.
5/4/11 2:00 AM
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JoshuaResnick
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when it comes to being "compmete" i think we need to understand that to a large degree being "complete" in these terms also means not really being able to rise to an incredibly high level in the most competitive grappling sports.

you are not going to be a world champion in judo and wrestling. now, sure, you might be able to do it in one of those two and in bjj or sambo, but we all know the truth about bjj and sambo--- that those two have much, much smaller depth pools at the world level and their sport is based almost entirely off off Judo and wrestling to begin with.

truth be told, anybody who is at a decently high level in any given grappling sport is a complete grappler. The question one would have to ask isnt if somebody is "complete," per se, becuase they all are. I'm sorry, but a Greco guy who comes into a bjj academy and has people running in fear to stand with him is absolutley complete-- even if he doesnt know a single choke or armlock.

for me, the goal of grappling in this format should be to be able to impose your will on others to a degree that they are basically forced to flee or face total devestation.

5/4/11 2:11 AM
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gbutts
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JoshuaResnick - when it comes to being "compmete" i think we need to understand that to a large degree being "complete" in these terms also means not really being able to rise to an incredibly high level in the most competitive grappling sports.

you are not going to be a world champion in judo and wrestling. now, sure, you might be able to do it in one of those two and in bjj or sambo, but we all know the truth about bjj and sambo--- that those two have much, much smaller depth pools at the world level and their sport is based almost entirely off off Judo and wrestling to begin with.

truth be told, anybody who is at a decently high level in any given grappling sport is a complete grappler. The question one would have to ask isnt if somebody is "complete," per se, becuase they all are. I'm sorry, but a Greco guy who comes into a bjj academy and has people running in fear to stand with him is absolutley complete-- even if he doesnt know a single choke or armlock.

for me, the goal of grappling in this format should be to be able to impose your will on others to a degree that they are basically forced to flee or face total devestation.


I agree, but i will also add that they are elite in their form of grasppling and well verse in things outside their grappling form to know what and how to overcome things that are not stress in their grappling art.
5/4/11 8:51 AM
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Chocolate Shatner
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I have to disagree that elite level players of any version of grappling are "complete grapplers."

Look at Ishii when he went to MMA. His last major match, against Jerome LeBanner of all people, he didn't exactly "impose his will" upon LeBanner. He was reversed, punched, and couldn't even keep his hometown fans on his side. He couldn't submit a man with little grappling ability, couldn't inflict damage, and honestly, if it hadn't been for the Inoki-paid judges, might have even lost.

His two submissions, something a "complete grappler" would have, were against a "pro-wrestler" with a record of 4-10, and a kickboxer who has lost both of his pro MMA fights by submission.

Yet, against LeBanner and Minowa-man (who, I have to say, has the SWEETEST mullet this side of the 1980's), both men who are not Olympic level grapplers, he could only squeak out decision wins.

Perhaps in the old days, an elite of various styles was a "complete grappler", but not anymore, at least when it comes to judo.

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