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HolyGround >> Jesus and War ?


5/30/11 10:25 PM
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LoveToChoke
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While a few of you guys have said you don't like Maher, I'm very interested in your opinion on his monologue. Is he wrong? Or is he right but you don't want to admit it because you don't like him?
5/31/11 12:06 AM
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yusul
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he's partially right in order to produce a sound bite. it's clear from his sneering that his opinion actually comes from a position of arrogance and bitterness, while under the guise of logic.

it's exactly what i'd expect of an atheist trying to interpret the bible. he thinks he has a part of the truth and runs off with it. so he's the judge of who gets to be called a christian? that's pretty human based (since he doesn't believe in God) and self serving.

so his conclusion is wrong, because an atheist definitely doesn't know what's in the human heart and a person's relationship with God, and MORE importantly, he's picking and choosing the bible quotes like a buffet to produce sound bites.

so he has errors in both intentions and methods.
5/31/11 1:03 AM
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LoveToChoke
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So advocating torture IS Christian?
5/31/11 1:22 AM
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reverend john
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I didn't watch the clip because I can't stand Maher, but...

Often non Christians just read what Jesus wrote, and take it for what it says, and don't "recontextualize it". After 1700 years of being taught that when Jesus said love your enemies, he meant love them with your heart, even if you have to kill them in "real life", they cannot read the text clearly. To study the early church, it is very easy to see they did understand Jesus very clearly when it came to violence. You cannot love your enemy and do violence to them.

rev
5/31/11 7:46 AM
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the rooster
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Yet John, soldiers became Christians and I do not see where they were told to quit. The scriptures also teach that the sword of a nation was give by God to enforce righteousness.

I think part of loving your neighbor includes your neighbors. If some guy walks into my neighborhood with the intent to molest, rape or kill, I love him enough to use whatever means I can to stop him. I will pray, I will shout, I will compel, but if I have to make a decision as to how I'm going to exhibit the love of God the most, it will be to stop this man from his grave sins he is about to commit and save my neighbors and loved ones from the horror that he might inflict.


5/31/11 11:39 AM
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yusul
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LoveToChoke - So advocating torture IS Christian?


of course not, but the question is why do christians not advocate torture? it because of an established belief that is an emotive and spiritual experience led by a message.

this is a distinct reason from an atheist, who might not think torture is ethical. you don't have to be a christian in other words to be against torture, but that doesn't mean you have an understanding why christians are against torture.

especially by reading a text without contextual understanding.

or to put it another way, maher is simply reading the words without understanding the meaning behind it, because the full dimension of understanding the bible includes the spiritual culture of christianity.

i can read a physics text for example and not understand the implications, even though i can read english.

in other words, right conclusion based off of wrong reasoning.


5/31/11 4:31 PM
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reverend john
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the rooster - Yet John, soldiers became Christians and I do not see where they were told to quit. The scriptures also teach that the sword of a nation was give by God to enforce righteousness.

I think part of loving your neighbor includes your neighbors. If some guy walks into my neighborhood with the intent to molest, rape or kill, I love him enough to use whatever means I can to stop him. I will pray, I will shout, I will compel, but if I have to make a decision as to how I'm going to exhibit the love of God the most, it will be to stop this man from his grave sins he is about to commit and save my neighbors and loved ones from the horror that he might inflict.



There is a way that seems right unto men but the end... Literally is death. When we destroy Gods image in another we destroy it in ourselves. Jesus never told the Romans to accept him as savior either does that mean they were not expected to? For the first 150 years we see not one instance of Christian soldiers and almost none before augustines just war theory. We have many examples of church fathers decrying any violence and teaching the denying of baptism to soldiers or judges because they lived by the sword. The person who wrote Romans died by the sword of government because he refused to acknowledge it's sovereignty

Rev
5/31/11 8:12 PM
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zealot66
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 Until the time of constantine, christianity was anarchism. There is a story of an early church father discussing baptism with a a roman soldier and whether he should profess faith in christ and by martyred or continue being a soldier. Supposedly, the soldier confessed christ and was martyred. I cannot remember which father it was but Ill try and find it.
7/25/11 12:13 AM
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micmac
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Ttt Phone Post
1/7/12 3:07 PM
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zealot66
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 ttt for HG.

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