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HolyGround >> The Word Gospel (what it does and doesn't mean)


5/8/11 1:05 PM
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reverend john
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Edited: 05/08/11 1:42 PM
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the word gospel, that is used in the new testament is often taken to mean "the good news" which is actually a direct translation of the greek word evangelion. But there is much in its cultural context that is missing if you just read it as good news.

The word evangelion is actually a political word. It would more appropriately be interpreted as "the good heraldry" or "the herald of the empire" This word is the word that is used to explain the Roman herald, that would enter a town amidst loud fan fare, blowing trumpets ect. and announce the victories of the pax Romana, (the peace of Rome). This was an empirical word, that was all about announcing the good news of the Roman Empire. It would not be used in the context of: "hey did you hear the good news Fred and Jane are expecting a baby"

Why is this important? Because Jesus says the evangelion is "the empire of God or heaven is here, turn from your other allegiances and believe this" Jesus calls us not to a "spiritual conversion" but a physical, political, cultural, economic AND spiritual conversion. Jesus calls us to become part of a new empire, a new nation, a new economy One in which God is emperor, king, president, ceo. This calls us to be completely surrendered unto not just a belief, but a way of life.

What the gospel does not mean:

the word gospel does not mean soteriology (or means in which we are saved)

the word gospel does not mean a complete Christian theology and eschatology

The word gospel does not mean apologism or evangelism

Though it is used in all of these ways in modern times, this is not its biblical meaning.

rev
5/8/11 1:34 PM
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Grakman
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Good post rev. Phone Post
5/8/11 2:30 PM
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the rooster
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Rev, that is insightful. I enjoyed reading it. I like how Paul defines the gospel in Corinthians 15. One of my favorite explanations.

Corinthians 15 (King James Version)

1 Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
5/8/11 2:37 PM
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toelocku
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kingdom of the HEAVENS (with an S)

"Jesus calls us not to a "spiritual conversion" but a physical, political, cultural, economic AND spiritual conversion."

the above contradicts but could be clerical error.
5/8/11 2:49 PM
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reverend john
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It is apparent that Paul uses the word in a more inclusive way. I would suggest however, that it is Jesus who defines the gospel. Paul, uses the word, and expands its meaning.

I guess it would be more correct for me to say, what I am speaking of when I talk about the gospel, not what the bible says. As Paul definitely uses the language to mean a presentation of the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. I do believe in all of the things posted above, and will affirm them as the completion of the gospel, in other words the fulfilling of the kingdom of God. So as that kingdom has been lived out in Christ we can recontextualize the word gospel to include what has happened already, and therefore be asked to continue in that kingdom as it continues to unfold

rev
5/8/11 2:50 PM
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reverend john
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toelocku - kingdom of the HEAVENS (with an S)

"Jesus calls us not to a "spiritual conversion" but a physical, political, cultural, economic AND spiritual conversion."

the above contradicts but could be clerical error.


meant not only to a spiritual conversion, thanks for pointing out my flaws

rev
5/8/11 2:58 PM
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mmanthebay
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good post Rev. Phone Post
5/8/11 3:09 PM
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mmanthebay
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might I also add that by your usage of evangelion, or good news that Jesus also calls us to a mental conversion or transformation. ie. Repent; "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand..." Phone Post
5/8/11 3:12 PM
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reverend john
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Not sure what you mean by the ie, but yes I agree all of us, including our brains

rev
5/8/11 4:09 PM
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Workman
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John you said:

It is apparent that Paul uses the word in a more inclusive way. I would suggest however, that it is Jesus who defines the gospel. Paul, uses the word, and expands its meaning.

I guess it would be more correct for me to say, what I am speaking of when I talk about the gospel, not what the bible says. As Paul definitely uses the language to mean a presentation of the basic doctrines of the Christian faith. I do believe in all of the things posted above, and will affirm them as the completion of the gospel, in other words the fulfilling of the kingdom of God. So as that kingdom has been lived out in Christ we can recontextualize the word gospel to include what has happened already, and therefore be asked to continue in that kingdom as it continues to unfold

rev

My reply: Hi John, thanks for sharing your beliefs and views, but as I read your above post, I couldn't help but be confused, as it would seem that you are implying that Paul teaches a different gospel than that of Christ Jesus.

And if this is the case; is there more than one gospel?

Please forgive me in advance if I have read you incorrectly, but by all means, I'd love it if you could clarify it for me,

Thanks,

Workman
5/8/11 4:25 PM
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PastorJosh
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Exactly, workman. Hit it right on the head. Rev John would rather disassemble and redefine the gospel rather than understanding that the "good news" is that Christ bore the judgment and wrath of almighty God in order to justify and forgive wicked men. He's so fixated on the good works that Jesus did that he forgets the greatest work he actually came to do....die to forgive men of their sins. Phone Post
5/8/11 4:38 PM
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Grakman
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the rooster - 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

 Can you all educate on me here (sincere request not a smartass remark)? 

Paul says that Jesus appeared to people in this order:
* Cephas
* the twelve
* the five hundred
* James & all of the apostles

Is he just recording a number of appearances, or enumerating separate groups of people to whom Jesus appeared? In other words, is he trying to say that there are more apostles other than the twelve? (James and all of the Apostles)

Apparently this is not meant to be all inclusive either, as he did not list the women who first saw him at the empty tomb nor the disciples on the road to Emmaus. 

Are these apperances part of the Gospel message then, as he includes these appearances in his definition of the Gospel? How many of you when you share the gospel include Christ's post-resurrection appearances as part of the presentation? 

5/8/11 4:45 PM
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Grakman
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Looks to me like the rev is in good company, preaching the kingdom: 

 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people. (Matthew 4:23)

» And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. (Matthew 9:35)

» Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. repent, and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:14-15)

» [Jesus] said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent." (Luke 4:43)

» Now it came to pass, afterward, that [Jesus] went through every city and village, preaching and bringing the glad tidings [gospel] of the kingdom of God. (Luke 8:1)

» The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the Kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:16-17)

» And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:14)

5/8/11 5:19 PM
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mmanthebay
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I believe the Rev is clarifying that Jesus came to demonstrate the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which includes, but is not singularly, His death and resurrection. Phone Post
5/8/11 5:36 PM
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gord96
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the Gospel is simple....God wins.

Both Josh and Rev are correct. They just focus on opposite parts. Sad to see it turn into a argument that pollutes multiple threads on the HG.
5/8/11 5:38 PM
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Grakman
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 Amen gord, amen.
5/8/11 5:54 PM
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mmanthebay
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Exactly Gord Phone Post
5/8/11 6:01 PM
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mmanthebay
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you'd think that if Joseph could work with Pharaoh and Daniel could work with Nebudchadnezzer then we could at least get along Phone Post
5/8/11 6:35 PM
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reverend john
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Well, I am not trying to turn it into an argument. I am trying to explain what I mean when I say, the "gospel" is this. The gospel is important to define the way Jesus defines it. Otherwise, you wind up with a belief structure devoid of discipleship.

I completely agree that Jesus died for our sins, and rose to the grave. But what modern usage of the word does, is it takes away from the very real component of the gospel which is "kingdom living" Jesus did not tell the disciples, believe about me, but follow me and believe in me. You cannot have true faith, without discipleship.

So when I talk about the kingdom, it is the gospel that Jesus himself preached. And the kingdom is the way Christ lived. So when Christ completes his death, resurrection and ascension, this becomes part of the kingdom message.

Where it gets muddy, is on the other thread, (which is why I started this thread, and I cannot believe you actually say this whole board is polluted) Josh is challenging me based on the statement that I have risked my life for the gospel. The times when I have risked my life for the gospel were not times when I was preaching but rather when I was living. Trying to find an armed schizophrenic in a hispanic gang neighborhood who is both suicidal and having delusional fantasies about you hurting his mother (whom I never met by the way) is risking your life by living out the gospel. Moving into the heroin capital of Melbourne Australia is the same thing.

What I think Josh was trying to ask me was what do I really believe. But that isn't what he asked me.

I believe in Jesus. I believe he died for us, for our sins and because of your sins. I believe he rose from the grave bodily to show us that death is defeated. I believe that Jesus is the only way of salvation. I also believe in the bible, I believe it is inerrant in its intent, (for instance god does not have wings like a mother hen, or the satan is not really a dragon). I believe we are called to follow Jesus, to accept his invitation to join the kingdom, to be filled with His spirit, and accept forgiveness from our Father, and pass it on to each other. I believe we are called to gather with the saints, and encourage one another to good works. I believe we are called to be baptized.

rev
5/8/11 6:50 PM
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gord96
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reverend john - and I cannot believe you actually say this whole board is polluted


of course this whole board isn't polluted. i said multiple threads, but that's besides the point. i apologize.
5/8/11 7:30 PM
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mmanthebay
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and discipleship is definitely void in the lives of most believers IMO. When done right discipleship leads to spiritual maturity with accountability. Phone Post
5/8/11 8:37 PM
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Ridgeback
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gord96 - the Gospel is simple....God wins.

Both Josh and Rev are correct. They just focus on opposite parts. Sad to see it turn into a argument that pollutes multiple threads on the HG.

 Sure, but people differ greatly over who loses.

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