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HolyGround >> Catholics slam Boehner for tax cuts


5/13/11 7:23 PM
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TheStewedOwl
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By the way, you'd be surprised how much money it takes to run even a moderately sized university. Let's look at a few for comparison:

Penn State 2008-2009
Total University Budget - $3,607,444,000

Harvard University 2007
Total University Budget - $3,210,506,000
Total University Endowment - $36.9 billion

Notre Dame University 2008
$7.41 billion in assets
(Just this single Catholic university has a larger budget than the whole of the Vatican!)

University of Alabama 2008
Total University Budget - $682.9 million


Just to remind everyone again, the Vatican's TOTAL budget, converted into American dollars (as of today, and rounding up), is only about $327 million. And that's million, NOT billion like some of the universities listed above. In fact, a lot of the larger individual Catholic DIOCESES in the US have bigger budgets than the Vatican!

(Source: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=513104&highlight=muslim&page=2)
5/14/11 8:35 AM
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Robert Wynne
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the rooster - It starts at home with naked, newly born babies. That's what we should be teaching everyone. Love yours. And love others.

 this is sounding very catholic here.
5/14/11 1:17 PM
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toelocku
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"Yes they do...see Ron Paul...he's the 'star' of the tea party."

What do you mean?"

I mean people like Paul, Gingrich(sp), etc...are NO GOVERNMENT wantin, wall street lovin, poor people hatin...MORANS.

the benevolent dictator (see post ww1 germany and really today in most ways/THE BIBLE) THAT IS NOT A MASS MURDERER..imploring national socialism is by far better than ayn rand capitalism...thats what i mean.

5/14/11 1:25 PM
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toelocku
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Grakman?-?Edit to restate another way:

Explain how Jesus paying taxes tells us how we should vote and or which party we should support? Government currently funds abortion, war and the industry to support it. Is it ok to tax citizens only if the government redistributes the funds to the poor and pays for healthcare??

If a taxpayer does not want his money to be taken and used for programs that he does not support, can you see Jesus going to the man's house and taking his money and orproperty by force or installing a force of tax collectors to collect and distribute money taken by force or threat of incarceration??

Our government is funded primarily by the collection of income tax. Failing to pay income tax can land one in prison. Some states are funded by property tax. Are you aware that as long as there is a property tax that you can never truly own property, it is only leased to you by the taxing authority? So is it ok for the government to seize property and income for redistribution per the goals and aims of the government? If yes, what if the government spends that money on programs that you do not support, is it ok for them to throw you in jail if you do not want to pay??

From what you read of Jesus in the Gospels, is this a policy you can see Jesus supporting??

<br type="_moz" />?



I'm a realist understand in this country that the ideal is never happenin, big money rulz all. that bein said Jesus 'wasn't concerned' with the what the tax money He paid went to, in fact HE PAID FOR HIS OWN EXECUTION. As i said before ITS NEVER WRONG TO DO GOOD...EVEN THE GOVERNMENT.

Since the Chruch has abandoned its role the only thing that is left if the government to make sure the disabled and poor are not thrown in the street AND DIE.

its shameful and i would GLADLY pay more if we had a government like Germany with a brain and maybe the best run safety net out there.
5/14/11 1:29 PM
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toelocku
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the rooster?-?I believe we should help the poor. It starts at home with naked, newly born babies. Take care of them. That's what we should be teaching everyone. Love yours. And love others.

No one is against helping those truly needing help.

Just whether the the corrupt state is the best vehicle.

Yes they are, thats why im pissed. No they are not the best its the Church thats abdicated its role and its either government or old people starvin.

Judge RIGHTEOUS JUDGEMENT.
5/14/11 1:36 PM
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toelocku
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Edited: 05/14/11 3:43 PM
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<blockquote>TheStewedOwl?-?By the way, you'd be surprised how much money it takes to run even a moderately sized university. Let's look at a few for comparison:<br /><br />Penn State 2008-2009 <br />Total University Budget - $3,607,444,000 <br /><br />Harvard University 2007<br />Total University Budget - $3,210,506,000 <br />Total University Endowment - $36.9 billion <br /><br />Notre Dame University 2008<br />$7.41 billion in assets<br />(Just this single Catholic university has a larger budget than the whole of the Vatican!)<br /><br />University of Alabama 2008<br />Total University Budget - $682.9 million<br /><br /><br />Just to remind everyone again, the Vatican's TOTAL budget, converted into American dollars (as of today, and rounding up), is only about $327 million. And that's million, NOT billion like some of the universities listed above. In fact, a lot of the larger individual Catholic DIOCESES in the US have bigger budgets than the Vatican! <br /><br />(Source: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=513104&highlight=muslim&page=2)<br /></blockquote><br /><br /><br />um the catholic church is the richest entity that exists worldwide, the vatican is only one part. i'm surprised they have any money left after payin off the pedo garbage.
5/14/11 3:44 PM
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toelocku
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everytime i edit something that^ happens.
5/14/11 4:06 PM
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Grakman
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So you're a supporter of Nazism....so long as they're benevolent of course. Ok. That tells me all I really need to know about you toelock. Have fun with your Bible interpretations. Phone Post
5/14/11 4:14 PM
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toelocku
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lol...did you even read my post?

both my grandpaws were Nazi killers in the war. not that i agree with murder...just sayin.

i believe in nonviolence so unless youve met Nazi who believes this i think you might want to think again.

God is a benevolent King/dictator you do understand this right?
5/14/11 7:52 PM
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Grakman
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I don't know maybe I'm confused toelock.  What was the National Socialist party in Germany after WW I? Is this the party that took control of the press, banned ownership of firearms, forbade homeschooling, and blamed the Jews for the country's problems? Are we taking about the same government, you did make sure to add 'NOT A MASS MURDERER' to your comments about that government, so it sounds like we're talking about the same party, are we not? 

Odd how you hate the Catholic church for not doing enough but other people hate the Catholic church because they believe the church collaborated with the National Socialisst party that you find so admirable. 
5/15/11 9:17 AM
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the rooster
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toelocku - 
"Yes they do...see Ron Paul...he's the 'star' of the tea party."

What do you mean?"

I mean people like Paul, Gingrich(sp), etc...are NO GOVERNMENT wantin, wall street lovin, poor people hatin...MORANS.

the benevolent dictator (see post ww1 germany and really today in most ways/THE BIBLE) THAT IS NOT A MASS MURDERER..imploring national socialism is by far better than ayn rand capitalism...thats what i mean.




You think socialist, fascists and communist hate big business?!!? The relationship between wall street and todays socialist party in America is alive and well and thriving. Why do you presume it's moral for the govt to forcibly take from one group of people, keep the majority and then give the rest to people who didn't earn it and may or may not need it.

I have had relatives who for years have lived off the state as an easy con. they choose their lifestyle. They don't want to work and feign mental problems or disability problems they don't have and YES i know this because I know them personally. Far better then some bureaucrat who is fulfilling some function of his agency.

But hey, here's the great thing. YOU CAN pay more!

http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Check that link for contributions you can make as a "gift to treasury".

And here's where you can make a donation to treasury to lower the debt:

https://www.pay.gov/paygov/forms/formInstance.html?agencyFormId=23779454

I'm glad you will be paying more since 3 trillion plus isn't enough to run our constitutionally mandated functions and unconstitutional money laundering institutions and services.

Jesus said to give unto Caesar's what was Caesar's and give to God what is God's. Our constitution lays out what "we the people" specified were the enumerated functions of Caesar. Anything beyond that is illegal money laundering and extortion. I cannot support illegal theft even if they claim it's "for the children" or the "elderly" or "poor" (which in truth it goest to support some agency, their director, their benefits, etc. and a pittance ever goes to who they claim it will).

James Stowers (founder of American Century) has give over 750 million to his Life Sciences institution to cure cancer. Why should he still pay another 50% in total confiscatory taxes? Let people keep more of their own money and they will support the passion closest to their hearts.
5/15/11 12:12 PM
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zealot66
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the rooster - that's ridiculous. the govt is bankrupt. It is immoral to print money that doesn't exist (which creates inflation which hurts the poor), and take money from one group of people and give it to others who didn't earn it. That's stealing.

If the whole economy implodes those professors will be eating dog food with all othe other former producers in our society.

we take in over 3 trillion in tax revenue. We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

Also boener is not saying that people shouldn't give. If the govt stopped providing sub par charity, and the church was agressive in teaching charity, we could go back to a good samaritan society rather then a socialistic notion of charity.

 Actually, I think the revenue is 2.1 trillion. 
5/15/11 12:48 PM
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inlikeflynn
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toelocku - 
"Yes they do...see Ron Paul...he's the 'star' of the tea party."

What do you mean?"

I mean people like Paul, Gingrich(sp), etc...are NO GOVERNMENT wantin, wall street lovin, poor people hatin...MORANS.

the benevolent dictator (see post ww1 germany and really today in most ways/THE BIBLE) THAT IS NOT A MASS MURDERER..imploring national socialism is by far better than ayn rand capitalism...thats what i mean.



Gotcha. I wasn't sure which part of my quote you were referring to.
5/15/11 3:37 PM
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toelocku
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Grakman?-?I don't know maybe I'm confused toelock. ?What was the National Socialist party in Germany after WW I? Is this the party that took control of the press, banned ownership of firearms, forbade homeschooling, and blamed the Jews for the country's problems? Are we taking about the same government, you did make sure to add 'NOT A MASS MURDERER' to your comments about that government, so it sounds like we're talking about the same party, are we not??

Odd how you hate the Catholic church for not doing enough but other people hate the Catholic church because they believe the church collaborated with the National Socialisst party that you find so admirable.?<br type="_moz" />

hows this...

Nazi=no

National Soc.=Yes

and i have fam. i love inthe cath. church and according to your doctrine i'm catholic.
5/15/11 4:51 PM
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Grakman
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According to my doctrine? What doctrine is that? Phone Post
5/15/11 8:23 PM
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the rooster
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z, 2009 the revenue was 2009. Taxes are rising since O came into office and will continue to go up. 2.5 to 3 trillion is probably pretty accurate. nonetheless, that's a almost inconceivable amount of money.
5/16/11 1:32 PM
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inlikeflynn
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Rooster, not that I don't think the gov spends too much (we probably disagree on where too much is spent), but calling it unconstitutional is kind of silly. Unless, of course, you think blacks and women voting, for example, is unconstitutional.
5/16/11 3:12 PM
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the rooster
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It is unconstitutional.

The constitution gives us an agreed method for changing the constitution or nullifying parts of it. We can do it through the ammendment process or through a constitutional convention.

Passing socialistic mandates that conflict or give extra or unconstitutional authorities or power to the federal govt, is not lawful.

We passed ammendments to allow blacks and women to vote. If we want to provide govt run whatevers (healthcare, retirement, food and housing, cradle to grave etc.) we should ammend the constitution instead of just mandate it and therefore it is "so".
5/16/11 3:36 PM
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inlikeflynn
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The constitution gives congress the power to make those laws, and provides a process to challenge the constitutionality of those laws. I believe the Supreme Court decided long ago that Social Security was constitutional. We'll see what happens with healthcare.
5/16/11 3:55 PM
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the rooster
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Yes, but the court can get it wrong. It doesn't take a constitutional genius to see that redistribution is contary to the spirit of the constitution.

Clearly FDR was a court stacker.

It's difficult to ammend the constitution (as it was meant to be) which is why it's much easier to put radicals in the court, pass laws and give the finger to the people.

5/16/11 4:39 PM
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zealot66
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 Rooster, until the collapse of 08, you never heard trillions. Billions seemed inconceivable. Trillion is a daily headline. I am firmly in the camp of radically altering this goverments penchant for spending. The only tax I am in favor of ( theoretically) which I have heard some severely conservative economists support is an VAT tax. Ultimately it could revolutionize the need for personal income tax. There are so many models on it and Europe has abused it but the goverment has to do basic financial planning of raising revenue and cutting spending. 

I used this model to once and for all get myself out of 12k of credit card debt accumulated through unemployment. I literally got 5 dollars a week for years for spending money. I am student loan free and consumer debt free. So all in all it was close to 20k. If my dumb ass can do it, others can too.
5/16/11 8:15 PM
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the rooster
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what about getting rid of all deductions and go to a flat tax?
5/16/11 8:29 PM
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inlikeflynn
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the rooster - Yes, but the court can get it wrong. It doesn't take a constitutional genius to see that redistribution is contary to the spirit of the constitution.

Clearly FDR was a court stacker.

It's difficult to ammend the constitution (as it was meant to be) which is why it's much easier to put radicals in the court, pass laws and give the finger to the people.




Is this a case of "judicial activism" = an interpretation I don't agree with?
5/16/11 8:57 PM
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LoveToChoke
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The issue is that there are very few levers the government can use to affect the economy - all they have left is interest rates, tax and spending. Deductions are useful for encouraging certain behaviours, whilst taxes are useful to discourage other behaviours e.g tax credits for reducing reliance on fossil fuels. They need to have a sunset clause though. Phone Post
5/16/11 9:00 PM
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LoveToChoke
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The problem with flat taxes or simply using a goods and services tax is that it places a higher burden on those who can least afford it. People on lower income spend a higher percentage of their income on day to day living, whilst more affluent people are less affected by this. A combination of progressive taxes and goods and services taxes is far more equitable. Phone Post

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