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HolyGround >> What must I believe about Jesus to be saved?


5/19/11 5:14 PM
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the rooster
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Grakman - Workman / rooster:

When we repent and believe on Christ, are all of our sins forgiven, past present and future? 

And if our sins are forgiven, does that mean that we do not suffer punishment for those sins? 

And finally, it is a sin to fail to do what we should do (act of omission) or is a sin only an act that we commit (sin of commission)? <br type="_moz" />



good questions:

yes

no

both are sins

:-)
5/19/11 11:13 PM
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Workman
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John you said: As a father made in the image of God and filled with the Spirit of Christ I can tell you that I am quite capable of forgiving my daughters with no punishment or blood letting. This does not in any way diminish Christ sacrifice it glorifies it a Christ died not just to forgive man but to redeem the entire cosmos

My reply: John, your above statement supports my earlier accusation that you do not seem to have a proper understanding of God's character.

For if you did, you would not say in the very same sentence that, Jesus, being God, is all powerful, and therefore can forgive sins, while equating it to your ability to forgive.

I am left to believe that, either you are saying that you have something inherently special in of yourself, or you are saying that Christ does not.

Please clarify, so as not to leave others with the wrong impression about what you are trying to convey.
5/19/11 11:29 PM
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Workman
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John you said: The fact is rooster the bible clearly says what Jesus said and did.

My reply: Agreed!

John you said: Workman is saying but it doesn't mean what it says because this scripture this scripture and this scripture.

My reply: John, are you aware that you haven't actually made your point here.

John you said: And then accuses me (in his annoying passive aggressive way) of not bowing to scripture. So he basically makes Jesus words and actions in the scripture null and void and accuses me of denigrating scripture. Hypocritical

My reply: John, it might make discussion flow much easier if you were to indicate where there was common ground between us.

Instead, it seems that you are only interested in protecting your ego.

John you said: And bible worship is idolatry Jesus is the way the truth and the life it is through Christ and Christ alone that we find the Father.

My reply: John, 1) the whole counsel of the Bible is the Logos (John 1:1), 2) I do not worship the Bible, but I do rely on it as the final authority on all matters.

John, the question I'd like to ask is, why is it that you have this dangerous tendency to rely on yourself (and your own opinions)?

John you said: The scriptures enlightened by the Spirit are a tool to reveal Christ (notice scripture without spirit is dead).

My reply: Agreed!

John you said: To say Christ by the very power of his authority cannot forgive sin is pharisaical bullshit which Jesus confronted right then and there

My reply: John, now all you have to do is, copy and paste a direct quote where I have asserted such a preposterous statement as you accuse me of.

Perhaps this is a deliberate attempt to character assassinate me, idk.

John you said: I am sick and tired of ivory tower systematic know it alls acting like I don't love and follow the scriptures.

My reply: John, I'd explain it this way; you are a supposed Reverend, and you seem to actually hate open dialogue.

Why is that? What about being questioned or challenged bothers you so much?

If you love the scriptures, then lets discuss them.

Starting with; rather than placing the focus on who, or what I am, or not; lets deal with the scriptures.

What have I quoted in error, or stated in error?

What scriptures have I rejected, and or twisted?
5/19/11 11:35 PM
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Workman
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the rooster: I agree with each of your posts here, and you have accurately, eloquently, and gently expressed and represented my position.

Much respect,

Workman

5/20/11 12:11 AM
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Grakman
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the rooster - 
Grakman - Workman / rooster:

When we repent and believe on Christ, are all of our sins forgiven, past present and future? 

And if our sins are forgiven, does that mean that we do not suffer punishment for those sins? 

And finally, it is a sin to fail to do what we should do (act of omission) or is a sin only an act that we commit (sin of commission)? <br type="_moz" />



good questions:

yes

no

both are sins

:-)

 Ok, if all of our sins are forgiven past present and future when we repent and believe on Christ, what does Jesus mean when he says we must forgive others in order for our Father to forgive us? If Jesus' forgiveness of sins was looking forward to the cross, why do we have to forgive others? 

What did Jesus mean when he said that those who did not do unto the least of these will be cast out? 

Where will the punishment of sins take place, if we are forgiven for our sins? Is it temporal punishment or will there be punishment of sins for the believer in the afterlife also? 
5/20/11 12:12 AM
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Grakman
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 Can't wait for the workman and rooster to start talking about the Trinity. ;-) 
5/20/11 10:51 AM
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the rooster
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Workman - the rooster: I agree with each of your posts here, and you have accurately, eloquently, and gently expressed and represented my position.

Much respect,

Workman



Thanks workmen. Much love back.

It's awesome that their is a forum where we can debate, discuss, demand, teach, reject, protect etc.

I enjoy everyone's input, even those I vehemently at times disagree with. It's great to stand on Mars Hill and have these discussions.
5/20/11 10:57 AM
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the rooster
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grakma: Ok, if all of our sins are forgiven past present and future when we repent and believe on Christ, what does Jesus mean when he says we must forgive others in order for our Father to forgive us? If Jesus' forgiveness of sins was looking forward to the cross, why do we have to forgive others? 

me: that's a pretty sobering statement. I guess the way I understand it, when we truly repent and the work of the cross is applied to our life, every sin we've ever committed is washed away. The penalty for those sins is gone. Our name is written in the Lambs book of life.

If we sin (and the bible says if we say we sin not we are a liar, but if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us)...we have an advocate through the work of the cross.

Our future sins, the penalty for them, our access to grace for them has already been paid. So Jesus paid the price for all our sins. We live in time so as we walk with the Lord and we sin, we must "put them under the blood". We must still bring our sins to the Lord where the penalty has already been paid.

you: What did Jesus mean when he said that those who did not do unto the least of these will be cast out? 

me: can you give me the specific verse just so I can read it. thanks.

you: Where will the punishment of sins take place, if we are forgiven for our sins? Is it temporal punishment or will there be punishment of sins for the believer in the afterlife also? 

me: no. No purgatory. The punishment of sins was laid on Jesus. No future punishment of sins for the believer but temporal consequences.

(ie: I lie. I repent. I get caught in my life. I may not avoid the consequences of my life with people, but the payment for the sin of my life has been made.)
5/20/11 12:36 PM
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Dan O'Connell
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ttt
5/21/11 12:46 AM
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the rooster
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I think it means that we have to go beyond mental assent and show our faith, love and obedience by our works.


Those who don't, aren't really saved.

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