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HolyGround >> Glenn Beck turnin Religious Zombie


5/26/11 6:00 AM
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LoveToChoke
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Oh, and U.S. citizens, even those with coverage, are always one sickness away from bankruptcy. How exactly does that benefit society. Phone Post
5/26/11 9:10 AM
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the rooster
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Inlikeflynn or JoeRay, I never said Bush was a great president. Every critique of Obama is always countered with a, "...yeah but George Bush..."

Ok, let's play that game. Why did Bill Clinton hide behind Janet Reno's skirt while she gave the order to slaughter 75 people (including women and children) at WACO? The guy was a nut (like many radical muslims) but she green lighted torching them.

Or how about Jimmy Carter? He was the 2nd worst president behind Obama, driving up inflation, the misery index, gas prices and also appeasing radical islamic despots.

Do you want to argue about every preceding president?

I thought Bush was also a big spender, also had neo socialist tendencies (he was someone that also believed in "social engineering"), he said, "I had to suspend capitalism to save capitalism) and I think he was a very mediocre president.

That being said, Obama is Bush on steroids. Everything the left hated about Bush, Obama is "pedal to the metal". 3 wars, Gitmo open, drones killing innocents, rewarding big business and lobbyist, oil prices spiraling up, etc ad nauseum.

I was highly critical of Bush's overtures to Islam and it disturbed me.

I think he was gravely wrong.

It is magnified under a dubious man child, a former community agitator who never owned a business, never ran anything, he's acquired his wealth through politics and his father and many of his "kin" are and were muslims.

Yes.

I do suspect his worldview is not consistent with the founders, or with traditional Americana. I think he's a dangerous ideologue comfortable with managing our decline.

But I hope and pray for him and his family.
5/26/11 9:13 AM
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the rooster
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LoveToChoke - Per, I was with you on the need to be pragmatic, but when you suggest that universal healthcare is akin to communism you lost me. If private health insurance is so much more competitive, then why does healthcare in the U.S. cost double per person vs. comparable healthcare in other western countries with universal healthcare (i.e govt run) ? <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


LTC, American healthcare is only quasi mrkt driven. It is highly regulated, and layered with govt bureaucracy. You can't even shop state to state for the most competitive premium.

Costs in the US are built around compliancy and govt regulations, as well as a lot of R&D which many of the socialists wait on the US for. We spend the time and money developing and then once the product is on the market, their govt can volume by. We also spend a lot of money on liability insurance. Everyone is sue happy in the US.

But again, when Ted Kennedy had a tumor, he didn't head of to any of the workers "paradises" in Cuba, or China, etc. Nor did he head on over to any of our Western socialistic democracies. he pulled out his check book and went to Mayo.

Case closed.

All the animals are equal in Animal Farm, some are just "more equal".
5/26/11 12:43 PM
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per
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LoveToChoke - Per, I was with you on the need to be pragmatic, but when you suggest that universal healthcare is akin to communism you lost me. If private health insurance is so much more competitive, then why does healthcare in the U.S. cost double per person vs. comparable healthcare in other western countries with universal healthcare (i.e govt run) ? <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


I must admit I spent only a few seconds browsing the thread so I replied to your post alone without viewing it in its context. My bad.

I was thinking of medicine manutfacturers mainly who of course profits from the illness of people, but then again, what they sell is something that makes them well, and if it does not make them well, no medication will be sold and they are soon bankrupt as people will buy from the companies that can actually help them.

That is beside the point of course, but it was what I meant.

As for the conflict you mentioned, that is true about everything in society. Sure, you can build houses for free and give them to people but how do you feed yourself then? Hospitals can treat people cheaper but how will they then be able to expand, hire better doctors, buy better equipment?

But I think we agree that corporations should provide the services while the state makes sure they are available to everyone. I don't know about the details of the U.S. healthcare reform, where I live health insurance is mandatory and paid for with my taxes, you cannot choose to not have health insurance, which is a good thing in my mind.

"Oh, and U.S. citizens, even those with coverage, are always one sickness away from bankruptcy. How exactly does that benefit society"

I don't know what makes you say that. As I said I am not familiar with the details of Obama's reform.


5/26/11 12:59 PM
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inlikeflynn
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the rooster - Inlikeflynn or JoeRay, I never said Bush was a great president. Every critique of Obama is always countered with a, "...yeah but George Bush..."

Ok, let's play that game. Why did Bill Clinton hide behind Janet Reno's skirt while she gave the order to slaughter 75 people (including women and children) at WACO? The guy was a nut (like many radical muslims) but she green lighted torching them.

Or how about Jimmy Carter? He was the 2nd worst president behind Obama, driving up inflation, the misery index, gas prices and also appeasing radical islamic despots.

Do you want to argue about every preceding president?

I thought Bush was also a big spender, also had neo socialist tendencies (he was someone that also believed in "social engineering"), he said, "I had to suspend capitalism to save capitalism) and I think he was a very mediocre president.

That being said, Obama is Bush on steroids. Everything the left hated about Bush, Obama is "pedal to the metal". 3 wars, Gitmo open, drones killing innocents, rewarding big business and lobbyist, oil prices spiraling up, etc ad nauseum.

I was highly critical of Bush's overtures to Islam and it disturbed me.

I think he was gravely wrong.

It is magnified under a dubious man child, a former community agitator who never owned a business, never ran anything, he's acquired his wealth through politics and his father and many of his "kin" are and were muslims.

Yes.

I do suspect his worldview is not consistent with the founders, or with traditional Americana. I think he's a dangerous ideologue comfortable with managing our decline.

But I hope and pray for him and his family.


It wasn't a critique of Obama that inspired my post, rather the charge of inconsistency. The fact is, it is a myth that the Republican party is fiscally conservative. Since we're talking about past presidents, how about Reagan? When he took office, the national debt was 700-800 billion and we were the biggest creditor nation in the world. By the time Bush Sr. left we were 3.5 trillion in debt and by the mid nineties, we were the biggest debtor nation in the world. Remember the catch phrase "deficits don't matter"?

Anyway, I'm glad to see that you acknowledge the problems on the right as well. As far as Obama goes, I tend to quote Pete Townshend, "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". I think my exact words when I heard about Libya were "Oh shit, here we go again."
5/26/11 1:32 PM
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Joe Ray
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rooster, sounds like your problem lies more with America and the direction it has been taking for the past half century ie. being engaged in the middle east for energy and security and other strategic objectives, than with some respectful remarks made by the current president towards Islam.



5/27/11 1:29 AM
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the rooster
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at the end of the day, I'm more of a Christian Libertarian and end up holding my nose while voting for republicans.
5/27/11 1:50 AM
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inlikeflynn
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Yeah, I'm so disallusioned with the process at this point, I'm not sure if I'll even vote again.

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