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Wrestling UnderGround >> teaching wrestling from scratch, non-wrestler...


6/4/11 4:08 PM
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john joe
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Hello all,

If you're reading this section I guess you're a wrestler or have an interest in wrestling, and so I would like to canvas your advice and opinions.

Myself and a friend here in the uk do 4 hours volunteering a week in an inner city youth centre near us. We teach them kickboxing and jiu jitsu, and do some MMA stuff. Naturally wrestling is a part of that.

However, neither of us is a wrestler and our own wrestling training is fairly rudimentary, having come from our involvement in MMA and training therein. So we've got doubles, singles, some basic stuff fairly down but I there's a lot of gaps in our knowledge.

We are in the UK so it goes without saying we dont have a lot of access to actual real wrestlers or wrestling coaches. Is there anywhere that lays out like a kids or beginners program or anything, drills and so on?

At first I was minded to just leave wrestling out of their training but thats a disservice I think, so we're muddling through, but if anyone has any advice or links or anything, I would be grateful

cheers

jj
6/5/11 4:40 PM
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Spartan79
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Teach judo. Judos at a high level in the uk. U won't av any probs finding a coach that would help with takedowns! Phone Post
6/7/11 7:39 PM
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dcvillain
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I find teaching defense first to non wrestlers is the best way to go. Good luck.
6/8/11 6:43 AM
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Martyspike
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^ Surely the first form of defense is understanding the mechanics of the technique that an opponent is trying to apply on you?

personally i think you should learn the echniques then your understanding of defending will be enhanced.
6/8/11 7:02 AM
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john joe
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actually i am a big believer in not teaching defense in any art until late on, as it can stifle the attacking spirit of the students.

Imo, if their defense becomes better than their offense early on, it means they continually get punished for attacking, get countered, guard passed, shot stuffed etc. I teach the bare minimum of defence at first, concentrating on position and movement, angles and attacks.

kind of like when i read saulo ribeiro's book and he said when teaching jits, he doesnt start with closed guard as most do because it stifles the attacking game and makes progress slower in this area.
6/8/11 9:51 AM
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dcvillain
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If you teach defense first, it allows students to have confidence in not getting takedown and being put in the worst case situation. When the confidence builds they become more aggressive with their shots and takedown attempts themselves. Thats just my two cents.
6/8/11 10:07 AM
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Martyspike
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My logic is simple and this is how i was taught -

If i have practiced a double leg 1,000 times and you have practiced defense 100 - should get the takedown most of the time. Attack at all times when possible.

Teaching defense in my humble opinion and experience results in people squaring up in defensive stance and wanting simply to defnd attacks as they dont have the skills nor confidence to attack and dont have the humility to be 'beaten'. The training becomes stale.

Again just my 2c worth.
6/9/11 2:23 AM
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ZzFDKzZ
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First move I ever learn in Wrestling was a single leg. I say practice 1 takedown and sprawls and drill it 1000x.
6/9/11 5:10 AM
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Martyspike
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^This
6/12/11 6:00 AM
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grapplingwithzen
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Not this ^

Honestly that may be a legit way to get skilled, but imagine how boring it is !! No way those kids are going to stick with that kind of training !

Also not sure I should give you advice, those inner city youth might be using MMA to kick my butt and steal my wallet in a few years !! ha ha

A lot of tape sets out there are a bit advanced, or sometimes tend to show the persons favorite moves rather than the proper and correct basics.

My advice is to use lots of drills. Don't make it too much like they've joined the military. Also getting thrown can be pretty disconcerting, so I think its a good idea to use lots of crash mats, it also helps avoid injury.

The Iowa state wrestling drill series is not bad, it shows some basic moves and then lots of drills to develop the necessary attributes.

Another good set is that by Carl Adams. I've never seen his instructionals mentioned much, but I think they have some of the clearest explanations I've seen. Also he has quite a few sample clips on youtube.

Some of the MMA oriented take down sets are not necessarily the best, but by being selective you can probably learn some good stuff by checking out sets by

Darrel Gholar

Jackson / Vanarsdale

Javier Vazquez

I don't really recommend books, as it is sometimes hard to understand the mechanics by just looking at the pictures.

Another thread recommended the Purler Wrestling System
or
Granby wrestlinng system

I've only seen a few clips of those, but they also look like a good way to progress.
6/13/11 7:46 AM
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Martyspike
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^ in my defense i got lost in this post and began to think about how to become a good wrestler and not nec. applied to kids classes so you are prob correct.

Boring it maybe for some - but with daily improvement noticable, not for me.

6/13/11 11:02 AM
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john joe
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thanks for all the replies

in a sign from the gods, i met a guy the other day who trains with the british team and is based round the corner from me. I'll be training with him twice a week now. Coincidence or what?!

Still interested in peoples thoughts re: approach and stuff though, when to teach attack and defense, what proportion of each etc
6/16/11 7:24 PM
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LMFAO
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john joe..if your ever in the north east area il gladly help you with your wrestling. If your wrestling doesnt improve by a very large percentage after one session il give you 100 quid!
6/17/11 11:01 AM
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Fight! UK Online
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The main bulk of the wrestling in UK is centred around the North West/Manchester isn't it?

Your own wrestling coming on will obviously turn over to them. What I tend to do if I'm teaching wrestling bits is drill the stuff I've learnt and have been drilling myself lots of times recently so it's fresh and the details are clear.
6/17/11 11:29 AM
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john joe
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Fight! UK Online - The main bulk of the wrestling in UK is centred around the North West/Manchester isn't it?

Your own wrestling coming on will obviously turn over to them. What I tend to do if I'm teaching wrestling bits is drill the stuff I've learnt and have been drilling myself lots of times recently so it's fresh and the details are clear.


a guy called david sweeney has joined karls now, he is from the academy in salford and also trains at aspell (aspul?). He is hoping to be on the Olympic squad for GB next year, wrestling is sick. Ive been hitting some sweet TD the last few days already!
6/18/11 10:05 PM
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CoachW
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dcvillain - If you teach defense first, it allows students to have confidence in not getting takedown and being put in the worst case situation. When the confidence builds they become more aggressive with their shots and takedown attempts themselves. Thats just my two cents.

 Dan's on the money with this one. Defense, defense, defense. I am a certified coach with USA wrestling and the first thing new coaches are taught is to make defense the first priority.
6/19/11 3:17 PM
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The Persian Devil
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I know some very good iranian wrestlers who live in the UK at the moment. Are you teaching out of a school?
6/19/11 9:53 PM
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BrCutter
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CoachW - 
dcvillain - If you teach defense first, it allows students to have confidence in not getting takedown and being put in the worst case situation. When the confidence builds they become more aggressive with their shots and takedown attempts themselves. Thats just my two cents.

 Dan's on the money with this one. Defense, defense, defense. I am a certified coach with USA wrestling and the first thing new coaches are taught is to make defense the first priority.
100% agree on this.  Not because I'm any type of expert, but it's what worked for me and anytime I've showed anybody from scratch, I start with the first line of defense: good posture and stance.  I go from defense, to basic offense ( a single), then into turning defense into offense.  
 
6/20/11 3:33 AM
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Fight! UK Online
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john joe - 
Fight! UK Online - The main bulk of the wrestling in UK is centred around the North West/Manchester isn't it?

Your own wrestling coming on will obviously turn over to them. What I tend to do if I'm teaching wrestling bits is drill the stuff I've learnt and have been drilling myself lots of times recently so it's fresh and the details are clear.


a guy called david sweeney has joined karls now, he is from the academy in salford and also trains at aspell (aspul?). He is hoping to be on the Olympic squad for GB next year, wrestling is sick. Ive been hitting some sweet TD the last few days already!
Yeah, I heard, That's an awesome pick up for you guys! Hoping to make it over to the new gym pretty soon, hopefully before my next fight (July 30th).
 

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