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HolyGround >> ? for all the Universalist


11/30/11 11:43 PM
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reverend john
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why aren't people talking about the people that are actually living like Jesus? It is interesting that he didn't call one educated person to be one of the twelve, and Paul, the one real educated early apostle said he counted it all dung, and that God has called not many wise ect. Jesus' people were called the way, not because the way they thought but the way they lived.

I am not anti intellectual, but things really should be in their place. You can know a lot of shit, but if you don't do anything, you are not following the way, you are just a scribe.

rev
12/2/11 8:55 AM
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CJJScout
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reverend john - You can know a lot of shit, but if you don't do anything, you are not following the way, you are just a scribe.

rev

I agree (James 1:22).

And Ridge, most reformed folks would consider themselves evangelical. Can't think of any that wouldn't.
12/2/11 9:04 AM
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gord96
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CJJScout - And Ridge, most reformed folks would consider themselves evangelical. Can't think of any that wouldn't.


I think Ridge meant most reformed aren't your typical western conservative Evangelical. He didn't mean the actual true meaning of an evangelical.
12/5/11 2:01 PM
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CJJScout
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I think they would still consider themselves evangelical. I would consider myself reformed and evangelical. Of course, I'm a christian above all that.
12/10/11 11:54 AM
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HELWIG
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Rev, do you honestly think that a person who attains material wealth or a position of authority while being a faithful believer and doing their best to avoid sin is more likely to see hell than an unbeliever who indulges in sin but is poor?
12/10/11 2:26 PM
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reverend john
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Helwig, arent we all sinners? The question is, is attaining material wealth and positional authority sin? which I believe it is, and is shown so in Jesus actions and teachings. So I say your question makes no sense. Its like saying do you believe a non addict who uses cocaine and heroin habitually is more of a sinner than the addict who uses crack.

Different sins, but we aspire to one and judge others. The idea that belief is the most important thing, followed by adherence to Christian culture is very unbiblical to me. Jesus called his disciples to follow him, and to keep his commandments. Which include among other things not amassing wealth.

As far as hell goes, I believe that most of the time Jesus was speaking of hell, he is trying to wake up rich, powerful people to the fact that their privilege in this world is not God's blessing, but rather God's call to radical, sacrificial, incarnational giving. The rich young ruler was a good, faithful, believer, and Jesus even loved him, but he would rather have his stuff than actually follow Jesus.

As to Jesus position... well can you find one passage in the entirety of scripture where he tells a poor man, a gentile, or a sinner that they are going to hell? Can you find any that tell devout religious men that are rich and powerful that they are going to hell? If that doesn't at least effect your thinking somewhat, I would suggest you are missing something.

rev
12/10/11 3:33 PM
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gord96
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Edited: 12/10/11 3:37 PM
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I think the motives of the rich have to be questioned. of course there can be rich Christians. Paul speaks of them in 1 Timothy. the question is, why do they have so much money and what are they doing with it?

They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
(1 Timothy 6:18 ESV)

Many rich Christians have been a blessing to the church as a whole. But it must be remembered that everything a man has, is not his, but God's. A rich man cannot be prideful in his wealth or position.

It is not money that is evil, it's the love of money and greed that is evil. It's the other sins that come from the love of money like covetousness, etc. I know a rich man who is one of the most generous and helpful Christians I have ever met. His wealth comes not from hoarding or greed, but because his job pays him alot, and in turn he uses that money to help others. Without a question he would help out anyone in need and he does.

And of course as the Rev says, we are all sinners, rich and poor.
12/10/11 3:53 PM
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reverend john
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the question is what is wealth? if you are buying expensive houses, saving money, ect then you are "wealthy" in my opinion. How much you earn doesn't make you wealthy, its how much you keep. My friend Mick Duncan once did a talk to a group of financial advisors. He told them, "most of your clients have a spending problem, and you are hired to help them. Well I am going to suggest that you have a saving problem"

rev
12/10/11 3:57 PM
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gord96
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Edited: 12/11/11 9:59 AM
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reverend john - the question is what is wealth? if you are buying expensive houses, saving money, ect then you are "wealthy" in my opinion. How much you earn doesn't make you wealthy, its how much you keep. My friend Mick Duncan once did a talk to a group of financial advisors. He told them, "most of your clients have a spending problem, and you are hired to help them. Well I am going to suggest that you have a saving problem"

rev


agree.

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