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HolyGround >> who is going to hell?


8/15/11 2:11 PM
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reverend john
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 now you all know that my views about hell are not mainline traditional at all

But with all the talk about Rob Bell, and Love Wins, we miss an interesting topic.  Who did Jesus say were going to hell?

reverendjohn.blogspot.com/2011/08/awwwww-hell-no.html

rev
8/15/11 3:34 PM
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Lahi
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8/21/11 2:21 PM
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INDK
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I hope not Phone Post
8/24/11 12:03 PM
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reverend john
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Well Jesus mainly used Gehenna, and sometimes Hades, based on the manuscripts we have. And we are speaking in a cultural context that does use a blanket word. But your condescension is noted.

rev
8/24/11 4:06 PM
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toelocku
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uh 'blanket word'?

sorry no they didn't

Jesus used specific words with specific meanings

the valley of the son of hinnom(sp) is where God told Israel to NOT burn there babies alive to baal and the Christian world has no clue.

so God says don't do this and christians take that and say not only is God going to do that BUT FOR ETERNITY...GARBAGE.

HADES was a greek god which Jesus used as parable to teach the concept of the 'unseen'. which is what hades power was.

this go to heaven and hell nonsense if for fools...

when you die your spirit goes to God and physical body goes back to dust until ressurection...
8/24/11 5:30 PM
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reverend john
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yes, I was referring to our culture

rev
8/25/11 1:05 PM
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reverend john
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Jesus rose in his physical body, still having the same scars, and eating and drinking. If he is the first fruits of the resurrection, and our example in all things, why would we not be resurrected bodily?

rev
8/25/11 1:55 PM
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toelocku
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LAPISH - 
toelocku -

Jesus used specific words with specific meanings

the valley of the son of hinnom(sp) is where God told Israel to NOT burn there babies alive to baal and the Christian world has no clue.

so God says don't do this and christians take that and say not only is God going to do that BUT FOR ETERNITY...GARBAGE.
Very good reference God himself said that burning someone never even entered his mind. Yet christians think he'll go aback on his word.

HADES was a greek god which Jesus used as parable to teach the concept of the 'unseen'. which is what hades power was.

this go to heaven and hell nonsense if for fools..
This is where you went wrong. Hades is used in Greek to mean grave. Has nothing 2 do with the god.
when you die your spirit goes to God and body goes back to dust until ressurection

True, when you die your spirit goes to either side of the gulf shown in Luke.But you'll never use your physical body again. You'll have an angelic body.

hades was the underworld god of the dead who put on a hat and disapearsed and while grave is 'ok' what i said was right. as all Jesus teaching are in parable form and concepts are under discussion aka the concept of the what happens when death happens. we go to the 'unseen' place til ressurection.

as for your luke reference look up the word PARABLE and study it for 7 days...not kiddin either.
8/25/11 2:05 PM
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toelocku
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btw when you are DEAD you are DEAD not alive.
8/25/11 3:59 PM
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reverend john
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so you are a "soul sleep" guy? I think that is NT Wrights positions too. I haven't thought to much about it.

rev
8/25/11 4:12 PM
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gord96
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i always called it "asleep in the Lord". the soul returning to it's maker to await the resurrection. not the classic "so and so is watching me from heaven".

but in truth i don't think to much about it either. it will be what it will be and i am sure quite unexplainable.
8/26/11 4:54 PM
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toelocku
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Edited: 08/26/11 5:08 PM
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very explainable you do it every night. <br /><br />not 'soul sleep' though. a soul is spirit and dust combined when you die there is 'seperation', until ressurection in a new 'spirit body' as the Lord post ressurection able to appear, disapear, change form, eat, drink ect.

during the '1000 year regien' this is how the dead unbelievers will come to faith in the Lord. through the king/priest postion(Gods real reward) which those who God chose beforehand to rule the world(inward spiritualy now) with Christ and then outwardly. calling His '12 legions'. His 'rod of iron'(righteous believers) teaching rightesness bringing 'many sons' to glory or the ALL IN ALL 'time' paul teaches in 1cor.
8/26/11 10:12 PM
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Ridgeback
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 You could definitely make a biblical case for soul sleep and the opposite.  You could make a case for a little of both actually.  The beginning of Hebrews speaks to a "cloud of witnesses" who are watching the Christians on earth like spectators in a colliseum, but the Apocalypse speaks of saints waking up to see if justice has been done yet and being told to go back to sleep because the time hasn't quite come.  Maybe the perfected Saints of Christ are awake and the rest of us require a long sleep of transformation while we wait for the Resurrection.  I wouldn't mind a long sleep at the end of my life.  
8/26/11 10:46 PM
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gord96
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good post Ridgeback.
8/29/11 9:20 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." [2 Corinthians 5:8]

9/9/11 1:37 PM
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JesusTapped
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No one.

Hell is a fantasy much like the religions that claim the place exists... Phone Post
9/11/11 1:33 PM
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Lahi
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What do you mean that religions are fantasy?
9/11/11 2:21 PM
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Ali
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He means the trolls demand feeding, I think. Sometimes it's better to just say no. The Via Negativa, if you will.
9/11/11 5:18 PM
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Lahi
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:)
9/13/11 9:20 AM
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JesusTapped
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LAPISH - Just because jesus did something doesnt mean we will. Jesus went to hell and taught all those who came before him who never had a chance. We wont do that. He was transfigured 3 days after death, we arent r we? I could go on and on....will. Jesus went to hell and taught all those who came before him who never had a chance. We wont do that. He was transfigured 3 days after death, we arent r we? I could go on and on....
Clinically insane. In all seriousness. Phone Post
9/14/11 10:43 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation (NLT)

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?” 36 What a foolish question! When you put a seed into the ground, it doesn’t grow into a plant unless it dies first. 37 And what you put in the ground is not the plant that will grow, but only a bare seed of wheat or whatever you are planting. 38 Then God gives it the new body he wants it to have. A different plant grows from each kind of seed. 39 Similarly there are different kinds of flesh—one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

45 The Scriptures tell us, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.”[h] But the last Adam—that is, Christ—is a life-giving Spirit. 46 What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like[i] the heavenly man.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[j] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[k]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[l]”

9/14/11 10:43 AM
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Juijitsuboxer
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2 Corinthians 5
New Living Translation (NLT)
2 Corinthians 5

New Bodies

1 For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.[a] 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it’s not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him. 10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body.
9/15/11 9:14 PM
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JesusTapped
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Note to HGers....

Using streams of Biblical text in a logical debate only works if all parties accept that the book is a source of divine truth and is, as is claimed, the "word of God".

Your acceptance of something as fact doesn't, in and of itself, make it fact. Often in debate, a religious person will interject, "...well the Bible says...", as if the following statement would immediately end all discourse with it's resounding Truth. It's the same as an adult who, pressed by a child for an explanation that alludes them, resorts to exclaiming, "...because!"

If we wanted scripture we'd look it up. Offer your insight into that scripture and you have my attention.

Copy and pasting the text from your cool King James app tells me nothing about YOUR thoughts....unless you think in scripture. Phone Post
9/16/11 6:57 PM
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JesusTapped
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"True, when you die your spirit goes to either side of the gulf shown in Luke.But you'll never use your physical body again. You'll have an angelic body."

Can you believe someone actually had the nerve to preface this assertion with the word "true"??

Angelic body??? Does anyone ever feel an intrinsic sense that these ideas sound bizarre?? Angelic bodies after physical death?? Oh, let me guess...the good book said so which means it's undeniably true, right? It doesn't sound a bit strange and against the grain?

People have to challenge themselves to face reality. Many if these post life mythologies sprang from mans struggle against his own mortality. Our fear of death led thinkers, many years ago, to begin contriving stories of eternal existences. That way we don't really have to die at all, do we....

It's not that easy. I don't know the answer but I fear it's much closer to this: when you die....you're dead. It's cruel. But I'll deal with fear and uncertainty rather than convince myself of angelic avatars in an unseen dimension. Phone Post
10/17/11 12:06 AM
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Workman
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2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

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