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Weapons UnderGround >> Law Enforcement-Weapons Retention Program??


8/15/11 5:26 PM
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Jasonbaldy
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I've been asked to help with our agencies DT program and I believe weapons retention should be the focus, as well as simple and viscious moves. I'm not sure what forum to post this on so since the focus is weapons I chose this one.

It seems like Krav Maga can be a very general term with some of it good, some bad. Can anyone recommend a dvd program or training program I can attend?

Anybody know anything about any of the dvds on this website? The marketing is utterly over the top

http://www.trsdirect.com/
8/16/11 5:39 PM
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BshMstr
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Jasonbaldy - I've been asked to help with our agencies DT program and I believe weapons retention should be the focus, as well as simple and viscious moves. I'm not sure what forum to post this on so since the focus is weapons I chose this one.

It seems like Krav Maga can be a very general term with some of it good, some bad. Can anyone recommend a dvd program or training program I can attend?

Anybody know anything about any of the dvds on this website? The marketing is utterly over the top

http://www.trsdirect.com/


i'm a big fan of Loren Christensen's materials....

the problem i've found with LEO DT is that most martial arts are not that great for it... grtanted, there are many techniques you can pull from stuff, but law enforcement has so many little things to worry about. for instance, Krav was designed more as a quick-kill system, which would violate some use of force laws/regulations. BJJ is nice for the grappling aspects, but the sport emphasis can create some bad habits. boxing/Muay thai can be really effective, but you need to worry about hand injuries or cuts/injuries to suspects...


i think the key is to analyze the most common techniques your officers will use when handcuffing, confronting an aggresive subject, on foot pursuis, and integrate your tool belt (OC, ASP, Taser, handgun, rifle, shotgun).

while i think weapons retention is important, teaching your officers good techniques and tactics might be easier to focus on.

good luck!
8/16/11 5:54 PM
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BshMstr
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Edited: 08/16/11 6:05 PM
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some drills i do on my own...

i start in the interview stance...

lead palm heel to face (more or less like an open handed jab), cross to the body, leg kick

slip right and clover left to counter punch, right hook to jaw, move to clinch/underhook and throw

also, mount escapes, etc

personally, i'm looking into some of the Gracie combatives stuff right now, as i have a background in the Army combatives (based off the Gracie system), and have trained on and off in BJJ.
8/19/11 12:25 AM
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Skpotamus
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Most weapon retention that I've seen in LEO training was from a holstered gun grab. Jamming it down into the holster and then kneeing, elbowing, headbutting and biting the piss out of the other person seemed to work pretty good.

For the gun out of the holster, the biggest thing is working on the officers shooting from a close retention position instead of training them to always extend their arms out so the subjects never get a chance to grab their sidearm without getting shot.

Check out Gabe Suarez material, he does a lot of work with close range gun fighting. Retention and H2H are big areas he works on.
8/20/11 12:32 PM
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BshMstr
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Skpotamus - Most weapon retention that I've seen in LEO training was from a holstered gun grab. Jamming it down into the holster and then kneeing, elbowing, headbutting and biting the piss out of the other person seemed to work pretty good.

For the gun out of the holster, the biggest thing is working on the officers shooting from a close retention position instead of training them to always extend their arms out so the subjects never get a chance to grab their sidearm without getting shot.

Check out Gabe Suarez material, he does a lot of work with close range gun fighting. Retention and H2H are big areas he works on.



same for us, on the retention.... we generally do a few drills where you clamp down on the hands with both or one hand, do strikes to get the hands off, etc...


while handgun retention's important, i don't think it needs to be the primary basis of the DT program....unless there are a lot of suspects going after guns in your region. otherwise, i'd be concerned primarily with techniques that your officers do the most often. or, correct issues that happens with injuries (a couple years back we had several officers breaking their hands with punches....more or less due to bad target selection.

btw, "Defensive Tactis" by Loren Christenson is a really good DT guide.
8/21/11 5:37 PM
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Jasonbaldy
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excellent suggestions!
9/5/11 10:55 PM
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FJJ828
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 Have not seen too much of Cristenson's stuff.

The best material I have seen is from the ISR Matrix (I am a little biased) and the material from Richard Nance's WARTAC program. Nance has a DVD called "Keep Your Piece" that has some good stuff on it.
9/6/11 2:02 AM
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BshMstr
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FJJ828,

are you one of the ISR trainers? i checked out their site, and it looks pretty basic, but solid techniques: http://www.isrmatrix.org/index.php?page=store_prod_details&subcateg_id=2
9/6/11 2:05 AM
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BshMstr
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also, i checked out the WARTAC site, and they have several articles on thier site: http://wartac.com/tactical-combat-articles.aspx
9/7/11 1:38 AM
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BshMstr
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BshMstr - FJJ828,

are you one of the ISR trainers? i checked out their site, and it looks pretty basic, but solid techniques: http://www.isrmatrix.org/index.php?page=store_prod_details&subcateg_id=2


btw, by "basic" i'm not talking bad about the system...just looks like techniques that i'm familiar with and comfortable with... Christianson's book is also like this.
9/21/11 12:13 AM
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FJJ828
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 I am the VP and Law Enforcement Training Coordinator.

The material that has been released on video from the ISR Matrix regarding weapon retention is essentially the holstered handgun skills. The retention material related to the Long Gun and Gun in Hand scenarios has never been shown on video and I have never seen anything like our material from other programs. Like everything else in the ISR however, it is presented using the "I- Method" meaning that it is first Introduced though static repetitions before it is trained in Isolation with varying degrees of progressive resistance and then finally trained in Integration with full physical and spontaneous resistance. That info is only available at LEO/ MIL courses.

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