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JKD UnderGround >> JKD?


8/18/11 1:03 AM
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markijkd
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http://sixbeers.pixnet.net/album/video/165506897
8/18/11 10:02 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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Edited: 08/18/11 10:04 AM
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I've known of TC for many years, through Jesse Glover.

I'd criticize this vid on a couple of accounts:
1. Hitting the air around someone very quickly is not the same as actually hitting them. I've never seen TC do full sparring;
2. The guy has a helmet on. Why not hit him? If it hurts him, wear more gear;
3. He knows what the guy is throwing so it's easier to 'intercept'.

Otherwise, awesome speed. I developed a backfist just as fast as his, but his kicks and follow up strikes are faster than mine.

PS - wonder if he's done any reflex timer testing. Beep and he strikes to turn the light off by hitting the pad. BL was 0.05 to 0.08 allegedly. This skill was part genetics but he did have some training drills he did specifically to enable this reaction speed. 
8/18/11 10:53 PM
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John Frankl
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1. Appropriate that he is doing it at some kind of dinner show.

2. I like the "sixbeers" in the web address, but I would need at least seven beers to ever watch that again.
8/20/11 8:28 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 08/20/11 8:28 PM
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 That video hurt my heart and spirit.

I'm sorry.

Truly.

I'm not better than anyone. I promise. Those who have tapped me out and even some who have knocked me out can tell you...
 
8/21/11 1:52 PM
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Radd
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I am not familiar with the man but I have seen short videos of his classes where everyone has MMA gloves on and headgear with the facecage. They train with full resistance.


8/21/11 8:04 PM
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Adam Singer
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"they train with full resistance" lol Phone Post
8/21/11 10:09 PM
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Radd
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Edited: 08/21/11 10:26 PM
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"they train with full resistance" lol

All I can tell you is what I saw on the clips. No more, no less. It was more along the lines of the urban combatives style training that is done in the UK a lot these days.

I am not going to be a special pleader for someone I have not met nor have any affiliation with. But, I have to be honest about what I have seen as limited as it was. I am fairly sure TC works (or has worked) in a doorman/security capacity and integrates that into his program. I have also read he was heavily into boxing in the early 1970s when he was a young man.

Once again, I have not trained with him personally but it is my understanding his approach for self-defense is more streamlined from the earlier jkd material. Some might like that approach, some might not.
8/22/11 2:33 AM
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John Frankl
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"they train with full resistance"

I now need a minimum of 8 beers.
8/22/11 11:19 AM
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BshMstr
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this vid kind of reminds me of John LaTourette's stuff...he was the guy that had the old ads in Blackbelt maagzine that said he could teach people to hit 6 times in a second. same kind of stuff....really fast, almost spastic strikes, but i always wondered if they would even faze someone, due to the lack of power. and i'm a little ashamed to say i got taken by Latourette for the whole stupid video series, too...
8/22/11 11:26 AM
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BshMstr
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btw, this is the feller i was talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQpadGaAmx0
8/22/11 1:19 PM
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Radd
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Savate would be a more worthwhile comparison (understatement) where you have the enhanced perception of speed deriving from non-telegraphic movement and the reduction or eimination of chambering. I was watching some YouTube clips of savate matches a while back and I saw lot of fast and seemingly flashy kicks and then a power shot right out of the blue. Actually, they aren't out of the blue because the preceeding kicks set them up. In othere instances, the kicks are defensive in nature using stop hits or obstructing techniques which might not require 100% full power to serve their intended purpose. Speed in kicking can also be somewhat confusing because it blends in movement that is not always easy to follow and can create confusion which aids in the setups which can work effectively over the course of several rounds. Of course, not all savateurs or old school pka kickboxers have that same style.

8/22/11 1:32 PM
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BshMstr
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ehh...i think my comparison was pretty apt.

i actually think savate is much more worthwhile than both of those things

Latourette and Carruthers seem to have developed systems exclusively based off speed, presuming that they will stop their attacker. i'm sure sometimes it will, but i'm not willing to bet my life on speed only against a methhead...

just my .02
8/24/11 2:50 AM
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WidespreadPanic
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The problem with that kind of approach is that:
1. It's almost entirely linear. By that I mean like Olympic fencing on a piste. (not that it's like fencing, just the uni-directional aspect;
2. IF it is being touted as a fighting style, it's artificial. It's really just Karate one-two-three step sparring which lacks unpredictability, and in reality, lacks a system of footwork.
3. Uke is just feeding Tori a predictable sequence and despite more than one 'blow', it's not 'combinations'. Look at Sugar Ray Leonard and you'll see combinations against a top ranked opponent who has similar skills;
4. Since TC is a celebrity of sorts, the 'opponent' can not win, because that makes TC look bad. This can be a problem when you're facing a 'star';
5. You must beware putting on a demo where one person is clearly superior in some attribute to the 'opponent'. It makes for an artificial construct which gives false impressions. You can bring a lot of moves which look OK at 80-90% but fail at 100% intensity;
6. TC is working only on 'attributes', and only in one 'range' of fighting - again illustrating the lack of dimensionality.

I could go on, but in fairness to TC, raw speed can be applied in certain venues and bring some success. In a 'standing start' and 'demo' type of confrontation where you are, say, in a bar fight and someone pushes you, if you're keyed into this and nobody's energy is flowing (except the defender's) they can 'win'. But there are other venues, such as full range cage fighting, limited range all-out fighting (boxing),

Raw speed IS a formidable attribute, people see such a demo and think they can engage in actual unpredictable action and trump all other attributes. This can be a pitfall. BshMstr is correct in his LaTourette comparison, imo.

This critique does not mean that what they do is all bad. There's some good training methology in there. In the same light the BL of 1972-3 would be highly critical of the BL seen at the Long Beach Tournament, and we in 2001-2011 are highly critical of the BL at the end of his career. In fact, we are only seeing TC's stuff through the keyhole of a demo.

----
(What I don't understand is Demi's unexplained put downs. He disses stuff but seemingly will not explain. I sent him a detailed email with some unexplained phenomenon and he had no comment. He probably thinks he is above all this (and in some ways he might be), so why post in a discussion forum?).

$0.02
8/24/11 10:03 AM
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Adam Singer
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I wonder what was being served for dinner.
Adam
8/24/11 11:08 AM
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John Frankl
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Adam,
I'm guessing bull or turkey.
8/24/11 11:10 AM
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Adam Singer
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lol John
8/24/11 6:09 PM
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Demitrius Barbito
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Edited: 08/24/11 6:21 PM
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 """I wonder what was being served for dinner. """

How about "crow"...???
 
8/30/11 12:33 AM
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Majic Sam
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Pretty fast,off the mark.His girl is the mark,I think,so...

Anyway,Mr.T.C.is very good at demonstrating interception concepts and targets.That is pretty cool for a man of 50+.It gives us visual learners a good idea of JKD entering,and it can work well as a suprise/blast as long as you have a follow-up and can adapt to other ranges,etc.
8/30/11 4:58 PM
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Nasz
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A fraud!

To me this is not JKD and has nothing to do with JKD.
JKD is not hitting the air very fast when you know what is coming.
JKD is not standing still, not flowing and hitting only with one arm.

To me this more Karate then JKD. Yes you can recodnize JKD as being NOT a style. It means that you can do everything and everything is allowed to defend you in any situation. Meaning in all kind of ranges including the ground.

This is more Karate and hitting the air very fast.

Its time that many many JKD fighters and students admit to the truth and stop lying to them selfs.

I feel todays MMA is more JKD than most JKD is in so called JKD schools.

To me for example Anderson Silva is more JKD than this Tommy Carrutcher is.
And dont defend with crap like MMA has many rules and is not for the streets and blablabla...
Then I would say, try to hurt a good MMA fighter on the street. I guarantee you if you believe Tommy Carrutchers crap or most so called students of Bruce or students of students from Bruce, than you ll end up in the hospital.

And this is more than the truth!
9/1/11 2:25 AM
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Majic Sam
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Nasz,chill thfo,bro.T.C demos for his dinner...It isn't so easy being the torchbearer for JKD.Still,he would probably kytfo,and you would not complain.Karate-like demo?Yes.Take a chance?....no.
9/1/11 12:39 PM
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Nasz
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I am chill...

Maybe the truth aint so chill..

Its just the truth!
9/2/11 6:43 PM
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Nasz
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This is what I call True JEET KUNE DO!

No its not about being a sport...Its being about survival...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53zdxvajCEs&feature=channel_video_title
9/6/11 12:46 PM
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HEMAN
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Don't kno the man. Seen his highlights. Nothing NEW. Just a guy who can do it fast. I train with Julian Sawyer in wing chun. Did the same shit to me in demo. Never sparred him. As students...we all sucked. All of us got spanked by the San Shou/Boxing class. Either way...nice attributes HE HAS...not every1 can do it...not sure he can do it since there are NO SPARRING footages of him. Looks to be more of a Black Belt magazine highlight reel.
9/6/11 12:46 PM
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HEMAN
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Don't kno the man. Seen his highlights. Nothing NEW. Just a guy who can do it fast. I train with Julian Sawyer in wing chun. Did the same shit to me in demo. Never sparred him. As students...we all sucked. All of us got spanked by the San Shou/Boxing class. Either way...nice attributes HE HAS...not every1 can do it...not sure he can do it since there are NO SPARRING footages of him. Looks to be more of a Black Belt magazine highlight reel.

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