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Boxing UnderGround >> Joe Louis' Style?


1/30/12 10:59 AM
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martinburke
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You're most welcome.

Well, Schmeling freely admitted that he was flattered by the attention from the Nazis and from 70 years later we can all be judgmental, but to say he was blending in is revisionist. He put himself in danger just by repeatedly refusing to get rid of his manager, and snubbed the Nazis when they wanted to award him on of their highest honors, the Dagger of Honor.

Too many writers take the easy way out and paint everything black or white.
1/30/12 11:04 AM
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pharochuck
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U4EA - Surviving against Louis while back-pedalling was hard enough. Can you imagine what Louis would do to Holyfield? The only guy in history that would be a good bet to beat him coming forwards would be Dempsey.
i like frazier's chances, what do you think?
 
1/30/12 11:12 AM
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U4EA
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Edited: 01/30/12 11:13 AM
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Frazier wasn't as easy to hit as people think (I dont think the look of confusion ever left Ali's face in the first fight) but he could be hit and Louis could/would KO anyone he hit. Frazier was also a notoriously slow starter, whereas Louis was ready to go at the first bell. Louis' short uppercuts were deadly against an advancing croucher (see Godoy II).

A guy that got dropped multiple times by Bonavena in the first is not going to get far into things with Louis

Dempsey, Louis and Ali were just terrible stylistic matchups for anybody other than Dempsey, Louis and Ali.
2/1/12 11:42 AM
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HULC
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martinburke - They were partly right: Louis could be beaten inside, but you had to keep turning the corner on him. With the Blackburn style Louis needed his feet to be set. Billy Conn was able to do it...until the toll of all those body shots Louis landed during the fight caught up to him.


What do you think or how Marciano beat him? I've only seen highlights of the fight, but it looked like Rocky just outworked him and disrupted his style enough to wear him down.

I remember there being a quote floating around a while back as well, where Louis was supposed to have said that Rocky had the style he had been worried about his whole career and would have beaten him even in his prime.
2/1/12 11:54 AM
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martinburke
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Yeah, he did say that about Marciano. He did tend to have trouble with fighters that crouched and crowded him...at least the first time they met.

But Louis was also way past it when he fought Marciano. Louis mentioned that "My right hand don't leave me no more"...what he meant was that his right hand didn't fire out without thinking; he'd reached the point where he'd see an opening and he'd have to tell his right hand to go.

That's not good.

2/1/12 12:00 PM
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U4EA
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Yeah, he said "I saw all the openings but by the time I went to throw, they had closed" or something like that.
2/1/12 1:00 PM
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oblongo
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It's funny that this talk of Schmeling came up. I just finished reading "Ring of Hate," and the author makes it clear that Schmeling had big brass ones. He had to keep his distance publicly from the Nazis to alive his chances at another title shot, but that doesn't explain why he went out of his way privately to help a number of Jewish friends when the Nazis were persecuting them.

Martin mentioned the most notable of those episodes, helping smuggle the children of a Jewish friend out of Germany. No one outside the family knew about that until the children revealed what had happened in the late 1980s. Even after that, Schmeling refused to talk about it. One of the brothers said that when he tried to thank Schmeling he got really embarrassed and said that any man would have done that.

2/1/12 1:40 PM
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Ogami Itto
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It's really too bad about Conn - he could have won that fight. I'll have to read up on him and see what else happened to him. I think he went to war and then lost some of his zip? Really an interesting cat, a great Pittsburgh Irish blue collar hero. "Billy Cawn."
2/1/12 2:38 PM
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martinburke
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When Conn and Louis were long retired, they worked as casino greeters, Conn at the Stardust and Louis at Caesar's. They had a little running gag they'd do when they'd see each other:

Conn: “Joe, you had the title for twelve years. Couldn’t you have let me have it for six months?”

Louis: “You had the title for twelve rounds and didn’t know what to do with it. How could you keep it for six months?”

The Pittsburgh boxing people believed in seeing what a fighter had right away, so they'd throw their fighters to the lions right off the bat. You never saw a Pittsburgh fighter make it to headliner status and then get exposed as a fraud. Those fuckers were tested early and often.
2/1/12 3:27 PM
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pharochuck
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HULC - 
martinburke - They were partly right: Louis could be beaten inside, but you had to keep turning the corner on him. With the Blackburn style Louis needed his feet to be set. Billy Conn was able to do it...until the toll of all those body shots Louis landed during the fight caught up to him.


What do you think or how Marciano beat him? I've only seen highlights of the fight, but it looked like Rocky just outworked him and disrupted his style enough to wear him down.

I remember there being a quote floating around a while back as well, where Louis was supposed to have said that Rocky had the style he had been worried about his whole career and would have beaten him even in his prime.
i don't think marciano beats prime louis. louis looked good enough until the end to make me think a 10 years younger louis might have been what the doctor ordered for marciano. but i also think that 1980-1981 holmes beats tyson.
 
2/1/12 3:28 PM
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pharochuck
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Ogami Itto - It's really too bad about Conn - he could have won that fight. I'll have to read up on him and see what else happened to him. I think he went to war and then lost some of his zip? Really an interesting cat, a great Pittsburgh Irish blue collar hero. "Billy Cawn."
if conn would have won would he have been the lightest heavyweight champ ever?
 
2/1/12 3:39 PM
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martinburke
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I think Fitzsimmons was announced at @ 170, but actually weighed 156 and change when he knocked out Corbett.
2/1/12 3:46 PM
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U4EA
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Fitz weighed 156lbs? Jesus, I didn't know that.
2/1/12 3:54 PM
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pharochuck
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 wow a guy weighing 156 now would cut down to 135 and hope to come in with a 10-15lb weight advantage. when zahir raheem beat morales he was well over 150 in the ring
2/1/12 4:00 PM
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martinburke
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I'd like to see how they'd perform these drastic weight cuts with a same-day weigh-in.

And I think those drastic weight cuts are a big part of why these guys are getting punchy in so few fights, relative to the old timers.
2/2/12 10:25 AM
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martinburke
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Just now actually reading the first couple of pages of this thread.

I shoulda shut my mouth and let Chappie do his thing. He's the guy to go to with Louis.

Sorry, man.
2/17/12 4:04 PM
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Steelersfan 24 7
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A prime Louis would of been too much for Marciano. The Rock even said it himself on his TV show he used to have. They used to shoe it on ESPN classic. Rocky had guests on if I remember correctly, but he primarily just talked about his old fights.

When he talked about the Louis fight he said about how hard The Louis jab hurt him and he was 37 yrs old at the time. He knew he was lucky to fight an aging Brown bomber. A 25 year old Joe Louis could of competed in any era despite the difference in size of today's fighters. His athletic ability and technique combined together can overcome the difference in size.

I think you have to consider that he would probably be a little bit bigger and stronger if he fought in this era. He would have the benefit of all the modern training methods and people to closely monitor his diet. He would be even scarier then he was back then.
2/29/12 8:09 AM
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ya
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From DamnSevern's "The Best Boxing Documentaries"-thread:

Joe Louis - America's Hero Betrayed (Documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y83kTl95qI
----------------------------------

Thread's here:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts_updsub&forum=1&thread=1916902&page=1&pc=101
2/29/12 8:49 AM
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U4EA
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ya - From DamnSevern's "The Best Boxing Documentaries"-thread:

Joe Louis - America's Hero Betrayed (Documentary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y83kTl95qI
----------------------------------

Thread's here:
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.posts_updsub&forum=1&thread=1916902&page=1&pc=101
2/29/12 3:55 PM
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ya
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Thanks for the embed, U4EA.
Like a lot of documentaries concerning top boxers it's a very moving story.

And congrats on your modship.
2/29/12 5:02 PM
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U4EA
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No problem and thank you, Sir.

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