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Indiana Underground >> Indiana Dead Now


9/1/11 8:34 AM
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Shire
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See how many people post here now.....very few. MMA in Indiana is screwed up! Lots of less fights, shitty promoters, shitty politicians....this law f'd us up.
9/6/11 1:58 PM
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VARIOUS
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Are you talking about fight shows with 10 amateur fights leading up to one or two pro-fights? Shows in strip malls? Shows where I have witnessed spectators come to watch and end up fighting in ring (and getting soundly KO'd )?   Shows that have one foot in a flea market? Shows with promoters calling the fighters "His guys" and living vicariously through them online?   Have seen all the above here in Indiana prior to the law being put in palce. 

Seems like the new laws have made the remaining promotions much more on the up and up. 


9/7/11 10:20 AM
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Hello12
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The Indiana Forum has hardly ever had people posting in it...

Indiana MMA is more alive than ever...
I love the post above stating all of the things that are now free from our state!!

Indiana Fighting Championships, Hoosier Fight Club, Colliseum Combat are all 3 putting on Legit shows for ammys and pros... There are others like the LFC that have been around for awhile, but I haven't attended to attest for the quality... But with the other 3 there's a quality show every few weeks!!

It's getting bigger, better, and safer now that things are sanctioned...
9/7/11 12:40 PM
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VARIOUS
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Hello12 - The Indiana Forum has hardly ever had people posting in it...



 Fact. 
9/9/11 9:51 AM
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Shire
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No.... I am not talking about shitty promotions with shady matchmakers putting drunk guys in the cage. I am talking about the good quality ammy shows that have been hurt or closed down because of new state laws. I have been involved in fight promotions for many years....before IFC, Coliseum Combat..and LFC. I was in early meetings with Indiana Boxing Commission about MMA in Indiana. Most of what was promised is not what we have now. Some is good for sport, but some is bad. Indiana does not govern any other amateur sport.....except MMA. Imagine going to the greens and having a bowling association member tell you what he requires before you can tee off.
9/9/11 9:55 AM
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Shire
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MMA learned from us, the promoters/trainers/coaches that started fight shows in Indiana years ago. We did kickboxing, boxing, submission grappling etc.
9/10/11 11:42 AM
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Jeff Malott
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Shire - See how many people post here now.....very few. MMA in Indiana is screwed up! Lots of less fights, shitty promoters, shitty politicians....this law f'd us up.

 


Shire - No.... I am not talking about shitty promotions with shady matchmakers putting drunk guys in the cage. I am talking about the good quality ammy shows that have been hurt or closed down because of new state laws. I have been involved in fight promotions for many years....before IFC, Coliseum Combat..and LFC. I was in early meetings with Indiana Boxing Commission about MMA in Indiana. Most of what was promised is not what we have now. Some is good for sport, but some is bad. Indiana does not govern any other amateur sport.....except MMA. Imagine going to the greens and having a bowling association member tell you what he requires before you can tee off.
From being involved as long as I have, I think I understand what Shire is meaning to say................some good promotions have been negatively affected by the changes.

Another point I will comment on is the Commission....

The current Athletic Division is not the same Indiana Boxing Commission that would have been part of the earlier discussions ( I know you know this Shire, just clarifing ). So, any direction the old IBC members were going, may not be where the evolution has taken the sport. Most amateur sports had some type of oversight, mma should be no different. Unified Amateur MMA rules were just voted in at this summers Association of Boxing Commissioners( soon to be changed to the Association of Combat Sport Commissioners ) convention.  So, Indiana is actually a little ahead in it's wish to have oversight.  
Most things new, are not without controversy. 

We'll crawl, before we walk, before we run!
 
9/11/11 9:09 AM
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Shire
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Good point Jeff. But still people die or get seriously injured, even kids in ammy sports of other kinds, and State does not regulate it. NO doctor at baseball field, no pre-event rules meetings etc. Government NEVER makes things better. We (by that I mean the people that work with and care about) our sport do!
9/12/11 12:48 AM
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IFC
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Edited: 09/12/11 1:20 AM
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Well I can't speak for all of the shows that are currently in Indiana but I know I am doing everything I can to help MMA grow in Indiana (under the laws we have now). I for one know that I have the people who were here before me to thank for paving the way. I know I have a lot to learn and we will grow slow. It is out of respect for the people before us, the fighters that sacrifice and the fans that appreciate that I work so hard.....and I do work very hard at this. I have been so blessed to know so many amazing people in this sport & I want to make them proud of what they have contributed to my knowledge of this sport. I love this sport. I respect the sacrifice it takes to be a part of it because I know that sacrifice first hand.
9/12/11 9:26 AM
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Mikeike185
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Shire- idk about all the rules that the commission has implemented over the ammys, but the ones i have seen help the sport,the fighters, and the promoters. So what are these rules that "hurt or closed down the good quality ammy shows"? Just curious. Oh, and the fact that you just put MMA in the same category as bowling and baseball, discredits everything you just said. So you might as well just erase this whole thread!!
9/13/11 1:17 AM
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Shire
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Mikeike... the point I was making about bowing and baseball falls back to when the boxing commission was in effect, and they wanted to govern mma. The boxing commish did not know squat about mma, but were going to regulate it based on their limited knowledge.

To be clear...I was the ONLY PERSON invited to the first boxing commission meeting on MMA in 2007 at the State Capitol. I then testified 4 times at the Capital before commissions and committees so they could understand what MMA was...they thought we had ARMED combat, since it was being called unarmed combat in State Statue. I fought regulation from boxing commission because they wanted and thought money was the big deal with mma, they thought mma, and martial arts was like boxing, all based on promoters making money and taking it out of State.

Jeff Malott and I have been around the fighting aspect in Indiana for many years..we simply have slightly different views, but I respect him greatly.

I started NHB bouts in Indiana when I was assistant state director for PKC kickboxing. As a trainer I personally had 23 State Champions and 5 Nation champions. Chris Lytle, Jason Godsey Dave Strasburg and other started or had early fights on my shows. Anthony Lapsley, had one of his first pro bouts on my show....etc etc.....

I just know that some good ammy shows have been lost due to the regulations, regulations that do not take place in ANY OTHER AMMY SPORT in Indiana.
9/13/11 1:19 AM
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Shire
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Sorry to sound like a braggert...but some people post here and have no experience in the game whatsoever, so I wanted to be clear.
9/13/11 3:50 AM
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VARIOUS
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Edited: 09/13/11 4:05 AM
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I started NHB bouts in Indiana when I was assistant state director for PKC kickboxing. As a trainer I personally had 23 State Champions and 5 Nation champions. Chris Lytle, Jason Godsey Dave Strasburg and other started or had early fights on my shows. Anthony Lapsley, had one of his first pro bouts on my show....etc etc.....



 I have been to your many of your promotions. My post was directly based on many of the shows you held in this state(Contest it and I can give you several examples including what a nightmare they were to watch or be involved in). That you list these fighters names like you yourself caused them to exist makes me cringe. Lytle and Godsey's careers have almsot nothing to do with you. Watching and attending your shows almost 100% made me not care about local mma and I truly am glad the new laws exist.  If you want facts, I can lay them down on a level you really don't want to see posted here.  Not here to attack you personally but facts are facts. 


   
9/13/11 1:29 PM
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Mikeike185
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Shire- In all that BS u just wrote about yourself, you still didnt answer my question. What rules and regulations are you referring to? That they must have insurance? That they must have a governing body to regulate the ammys? Before sanctioning of ammys in indiana, there were shows mismatching guys by 40lbs or more. fighters getting injuried with no kind of compensation!! Atleast now that can kind of be watched. Mismatches still happen, but now the commission is getting a better idea of who the real fighters and qaulity match makers are, and starting to get rid of the turds.
9/13/11 7:26 PM
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Shire
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Various...MY shows, the ones I promoted were operated very well, well matched, proper med check, DR at ringside, quality refs etc.

I have assisted or announced at many fights I was not proud to be at, some of those were very bad, but I was there to help as I could.

Mikeike185: What I wrote is not BS, i miss typed i started NHB, I meant I helped start NHB, years ago with starting NHB guys on our kickboxing shows because there was not enough fighters to fill a card. By rules hurting ammy's I mean getting all the blood tests ($), registration 45 days in advance and paying an organization to monitor. The PKC officals around the state were all trained and certified as such, most of us are still helping with fight shows now too.
As for organization ....I guess if the promoters are not well rounded fight people, then yes they should have oversight...I just know that I always used people whom had been there done that.

Insurance...BIG cost to promoters...softball players dont get insurance to play, nor basketball the list goes on. My point on AMMYS is that...they are ammy and many are giving it a try to see if they like or can handle it. Too much regulation always kills things.

I know about the real bad shows....that had drunks get in the cage or refs that allow a certain team to break rules to win. YES, glad the State came in for that reason.

As for Lytle, Lapsley and others, ANY promoter from back in the day had a hand in helping their career.
9/13/11 10:42 PM
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VARIOUS
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Edited: 09/13/11 10:54 PM
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Shire - Various...MY shows, the ones I promoted were operated very well, well matched, proper med check, DR at ringside, quality refs etc.


 
I would not call allowing an untrained spectator to fight.. Same guy KO'd almost immediately when he stepped in the ring. 

Shows with the refs not getting paid and the pro fighters being paid less than the price of a trip to emergency room fo a broken finger.   

Shows where hand wrapping is not watched and sometimes not even done.

Shows where an insane amount of poorly matched up amateurs fight and are not paid a penny.  

Secretly assisting one of the one of the worst promoters in Indiana with his shows at strip clubs? Sound familiar. 

You seem to forget quite a bit of the past. No reason to argue with you considering you are no longer promoting. 








9/15/11 9:37 AM
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Shire
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Never allowed a spectator to get in the cage.

One guy (Patricks ponytail guy) got KO ...it was his second fight, and his opponents team swore their guy only was training for one month, thats why I matched them. I was immediately concerned when I saw the other guy move around, I knew he was not new then, but the team swore he was. I was really pissed and got into a dispute the next show with that fighters dad.

Ref was paid...as he agreed to be. The Pros were also paid per agreement, and I did a lot of paying stuff on the outside of the cage just to make the shows go well (shirts, posters etc).

Ammys dont get paid, period. Most of my matches were very good matches, a few were not totally equal, but as close as I could get based and matched on what trainers told me. I did have one show where SOMEONE had fighters call me toset them up..and they never showed. I am sure this was an attempt to KILL my show..but we put together a shorter show, and a few guys stepped up.

I never put on a show in a strip club, I did advise one about how to do it, but he refused to do things the way me and my partner suggested, so we pulled out. I think you know who the gal that put on that show.

Im not going to disrespect you here...especially since we have the same type of job (and that means a lot to me), but until you promote and coordinate a show, dealing with all types of fighters, managers, and the requests of want-a- bees, you can not understand.

The above reasons are why so many promoters dont do more than 4 or 5 shows! It takes a lot out of you..stress is out the roof.

I hope all is well with you, be safe.
9/15/11 9:53 AM
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Shire
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Good news...Matt Bell has been appointed to commission by Governor Daniels. I met with him a few times 07-09, he seems interested in the sport.
9/18/11 8:31 PM
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ironbear
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Well I will proudly say that I was the one to convince Jason Godsey to start fighting. He didnt want to and on our way to Iowa to train with Pat M. I had 6 hrs to talk him into it and I got him a fight a short time later which he lost but it was a good fight in Iowa and the rest is history. That was Jan of 96'.
9/18/11 10:03 PM
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VARIOUS
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 Not to hijack this one man show of a thread which should have the song Glory Days playing in the background but why not...
 
 Hey Gary, last I heard Godsey texted me that he was living in Hawaii.
9/20/11 11:33 PM
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ironbear
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VARIOUS, yes he and his wife teach there now and he loves being there.
9/21/11 12:35 AM
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VARIOUS
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ironbear - VARIOUS, yes he and his wife teach there now and he loves being there.
I can imagine. Good for him. 
 
9/22/11 4:43 PM
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ironbear
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Jason Godsey was a great grappler I dont think many people give hime credit for that. For a HWT he moved like a man much lighter.
9/23/11 7:20 AM
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eddiebell
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ironbear - Jason Godsey was a great grappler I dont think many people give hime credit for that. For a HWT he moved like a man much lighter.
Jason is a legend in my book. You and Jason are the pioneers of MMA, not just in Indiana. Phone Post
9/28/11 2:30 PM
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UNIFIEDTEAM1
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Ahh the bingo hall events of old.. Glad I escaped Indiana.. Truth is nationally there are a lot of promotions that are vamping off of ammy fighters because they don't have to take care of them in any way, and could just skip merrily on home with their earnings.

A lot of these shows will have under age kids working the concession stands and wives or GF's working the door, and friends working for free as security, all so they can pocket as close to 100% of the take as possible.

That's not love of martial arts that's motivating them, it's good old-fashioned greed...

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