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9/13/11 1:26 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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I'll be applying to most of the T14 (anyone who will give me a fee waiver) and other ones in the Chicago area. 

I have two shots (10/1 and 12/3) at absolutely obliterating the LSAT (need AT LEAST a 170, want 175+) and time is winding down.

Anyone else prepping for the LSAT to apply for Fall 2012?
9/14/11 5:18 PM
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Cookie Monster
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Christ! Do something else. Seriously. I don't know what your intentions are, but you are gonna not like the work prospects once you get out.
9/14/11 7:02 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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I'm hoping to clerk or do biglaw for a couple of years and get a professorship. I will be working on my PhD while I'm in law school. Phone Post
9/15/11 6:36 PM
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Xtina
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lol, good luck. really.
9/15/11 7:21 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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Do share. Phone Post
9/19/11 1:00 AM
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KenTheWalrus
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba -  I'm hoping to clerk or do biglaw for a couple of years and get a professorship. I will be working on my PhD while I'm in law school. Phone Post
The sad part is you probably aren't trolling.

Clerking is probably still doable for most people. Biglaw is harder to get into now than it was before, and it was pretty selective at the beginning. To be a professor in a top tier school, you have to have gone to a top tier school and received 4.0 in most classes. I know an attorney who is a pioneer in his field, has been published more than almost everyone else, is at least a contributing author in every law school text book on the subject, yet can't get a faculty position better than visiting prof. in the top schools because of his law school transcripts from 30 years ago. He can get into T2 schools, but nothing in the very elite.

If you're studying for the LSAT now, just concentrate in the LSAT.
 
9/19/11 10:12 AM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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It's not like I'm saying I want to go to a T25 school and become a professor, I know I have no chance unless I go to a T6 - at least; even then, it's tough if you're not Harvard-trained.

It's not like I'm going into this with blinders.

As for BigLaw, T6 schools still place a ton of students - albeit not as many as before.

I've read enough on TLS to see that the odds are stacked against me, but I wouldn't be where I am today if I allowed odds to stop me from pursuing my aspirations. Phone Post
9/19/11 10:18 AM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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Oh and, in case it isn't known, I am already midway through my grad program - I'm not applying to JD/PhD programs.

Also, I'm collaborating with a professor at a T14 - on a law review article - and he has been very encouraging; he makes it clear that legal academia is very competitive, but he feels I'm doing the right things to give me a good shot. Phone Post
9/21/11 5:03 PM
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KenTheWalrus
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Whatevers clever. I also know another attorney from U of M that could only get T3, then T2 adjunct positions for years. She had a solid 3.0+ GPA.

9/21/11 8:16 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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So, you know someone who went to a T14, had a 3.0+ GPA, and had to start out at a T3?

That sounds fortunate, for her situation, to me.
9/21/11 9:00 PM
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KenTheWalrus
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What was U of M at last year? They're usually Top 5. She had a 3.5ish cumulative GPA (iirc), her lowest grade was 3.0, hence the "+".

But I defer to your experience. 

9/21/11 9:23 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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KenTheWalrus - 

What was U of M at last year? They're usually Top 5. She had a 3.5ish cumulative GPA (iirc), her lowest grade was 3.0, hence the "+".
But I defer to your experience. 

I have zero experience; I only have data and stories.

They're 7th. There are four tiers of T14 schools:

HYS
CCN
MVP
The others

Like I said, I think that's a pretty fortunate situation. If you're not from Harvard, it is ridiculously difficult to get a professorship - let alone one at a top school.

For me, I see it like this:

1. If I don't get into CCN, I'm screwed.
2. If I'm not top 10%, I'm screwed.
3. If I don't get a top clerkship or a good biglaw offer, I'm screwed.
4. If I don't get a professorship fellowship (where they teach you how to become a professor), I'm screwed.

One step at a time, though. I need a 170+.
9/22/11 12:44 AM
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Cookie Monster
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba -
KenTheWalrus - 

What was U of M at last year? They're usually Top 5. She had a 3.5ish cumulative GPA (iirc), her lowest grade was 3.0, hence the "+".
But I defer to your experience. 

I have zero experience; I only have data and stories.

They're 7th. There are four tiers of T14 schools:

HYS
CCN
MVP
The others

Like I said, I think that's a pretty fortunate situation. If you're not from Harvard, it is ridiculously difficult to get a professorship - let alone one at a top school.

For me, I see it like this:

1. If I don't get into CCN, I'm screwed.
2. If I'm not top 10%, I'm screwed.
3. If I don't get a top clerkship or a good biglaw offer, I'm screwed.
4. If I don't get a professorship fellowship (where they teach you how to become a professor), I'm screwed.

One step at a time, though. I need a 170+.
Sweet Jesus don't put that sort of self imposed pressure on you. You're not gonna b screwed if you're not law review, other opportunities will manifest themselves. Phone Post
9/22/11 12:59 AM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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Thanks. Yeah, not saying I'll turn into a basket case - but they're important goals. Just trying to show that I'm going into this with my eyes wide open, Ken and Christina's posts.
9/23/11 8:33 PM
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419
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Even if your LSAT isn't good enough for T14, it might be good enough to earn a full ride at a lesser school. Dominate your first year, then transfer. Or graduate at the top of your class, get published and go to a top school for an LLM.

I was under the impression all law prof gigs were sweet.
9/24/11 12:13 AM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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Thanks 419, I appreciate the advice; that does seem like a good option. There are always multiple paths, I just hope to get on the most direct one.

I have 10 weeks from tomorrow morning to absolutely crush the LSAT; if I put in a solid effort, there's no reason I couldn't have a decent shot at it.
9/24/11 11:04 AM
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419
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Have you taken a timed practice test yet?
9/24/11 6:55 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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Hey 419, I actually started a TLS account and a thread about my journey. Feel free to check it: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=166593&p=4787285#p4787285

But yeah, I just took my first 5-section timed test this morning (the one from June 2011) and I scored a 163 (LR1: -4, LR2: -4, LG: -4, RC: -8). It didn't really go all that well, but it's still a good result. I was so mentally exhausted during the test, I can't wait until I get to the point where I can be relatively fresh from the first question to the last. 

If you have any advice, please feel free to share it. I'm all ears.
9/26/11 11:30 AM
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turducken
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the LSAT is the easiest grad school entrance exam because you dont have to know anything substantive. just get all of the old practice tests and do them(focus on the most recent tests, and ignore the logic games section on the really old ones from pre-1998 or so). use the powerscore logical reasoning and logic games bible as your only study aides.

the logical reasoning and logic games are the same dumb question types over and over again. the words dont even matter, the structure of the questions repeat over and over again. become like neo in the matrix...do questions until you see past the facade and into the inner workings. seriously, its just a game...learn the rules and then it becomes easy. you should get to the point where you don't miss a single logic games question and miss a maximum of 1 logical reasoning question per test. you should be able to fly through these 2 sections with time to spare.

then it just comes down to reading comp...it looks like you have trouble here which isnt really a good thing since this is the hardest section to improve. but dominate the other sections, practice reading comp and get your miss rate down to like 5-6 per test and you are set for a 174+.

i got a low 160something on my first practice test. in the 2 weeks before the actual test, i was getting 178-180 on every single practice test i took. i got a 178 on the real thing. i studied only with the 2 books i mentioned above and a ton of old tests. doing entire sections from old tests under timed conditions is key to success.
9/26/11 11:34 AM
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turducken
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also, do NOT plan on taking the LSAT twice. prepare once and do it right. your scores will be averaged. if you aren't ready for oct, dont take it until dec. applying early is important, but taking the lsat in dec isnt going to hurt you...just have your applications submitted now and complete aside from the lsat score.
9/26/11 12:57 PM
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Gracie KO'd by Blackuraba
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turducken, fantastic posts! Congrats on the 178, by the way!

I am actually registered for the October test, but I am going to cancel my registration before Saturday; after getting a 163 on Saturday (which actually didn't go all that well), I kind of see it like this: there's probably a 1 in 10 chance that I can get as high as a 171, the lowest score I need. If I feel like it went really well, and I expect a 171, I'd be screwed come November when I find out I got a ~165. While there is a boost for applying early, I'd be MUCH better off with a 175 applying in December than a 168 in October; so there is really no reason to take it on Saturday.

I have 10 weeks before the December test, 12/3, so I'm just putting all of my focus on killing that test. I have actually hired a LSAT/GRE tutor who will only work with me on RC; they have a great approach to RC so, with their help and a ton of practice, I guarantee I can become strong in RC. As it is, I have gotten some -3's, some -8's, and a ton of -6's. But with some focused prep, I'm sure I can be routinely scoring -3's.

With LG, I have a strong understanding and I have practiced to the point where -0 is a good score, -2 is a bad score, and -4 is a disaster (ran out of time, etc.). I just need to keep practicing and get to the point where I've missed 1 question in my last 10 sections combined.

As for LR, I hear you - man. That's how my recent practice test went; I just kind of went in the zone, seeing through the specific details and just noticing the structure of the arguments. I actually missed only 1 out of the first 22 in one of the sections, until I ran out of time and had to guess on the last three. I know I just need to keep reading up on the common flaws, keep studying the different question types, and find the types I'm weak on - and drill the heck out of them.

Right now, my biggest weakness is that I have poor stamina; I'm just not used to taking full, 5-section tests. I will be taking two tests a week, Wednesday and Saturday, for the next several weeks and then three tests a week, Monday Wednesday and Saturday, until the week of the test. I think if I were properly practiced, at the moment, I'd be at a 168 average. So while I need to practice to start realizing my potential, I still need to significantly improve my potential.

As for the books, I have all of the bibles but I have registered for this online course with similar prep materials and videos that accompany the lessons; I'm going to go with the course, but I'll definitely try to use the bibles as a supplement.

Quite literally, I'll be in the running for a 160k scholarship (to my top choice school) if I'm able to do as well as you did - turducken. If I'm able to just get 170-171, I'll probably have to pay that whole 160k.

I'm kind of bunched up with teaching a couple of classes, this semester, but I'm also taking a class on formal logic that I hope will help my prep. 

The way I see it, I have 10 weeks to avoid 10 years of 1500/month payments. I'm going to put my all into this, and I know it will pay dividends.
9/26/11 8:31 PM
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turducken
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careful with that online course...if they teach contradictory methods, i would stick with the powerscore books. kaplan/princeton review/other programs can fuck you up. powerscore and testmasters are aimed at people who want to score 180. kaplan is aimed at people who want to score 165.

doing 2 full tests a week is good, but you should also do individual timed sections more often during the week. the more questions you do, the easier it gets.

also, don't over study the reading comprehension. don't blow it off, but you can make your biggest gains in LG and LR. goodluck
9/26/11 9:32 PM
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I actually took the Powerscore course and this course has much of what I remember from that course. I'll just say that I have watched enough of his videos to see that he does have a great understanding of the LSAT, as well as an effective method for each section.

I hear you taking more timed sections; especially with the LR, it's easy to get complacent but I need as much experience going through the whole litany of LR types - that you get in a full section.

And I agree with not letting the other areas fall off; that happened to me before. I was crushing LR (often -3 to -5 combined) but I was struggling with LG; I put all of my time and effort into LG, completely fell off on LR, and started to bomb LR sections. I'm at a point where I'm competent on everything, so I can't let any one area fall behind; I have to improve on all of them, from here on.

Thanks man.
10/2/11 10:09 PM
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Subadie
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LAw Profs dont really pay that well, do they ? They are what, 150 ?
10/3/11 2:34 PM
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419
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I wouldn't mind pulling 6 figures to wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches and ask socratic questions two days a week.

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